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Okay gentlemen, REAL talk...

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

I agree about giving them time. The Panthers would be foolish to go into next year with Young penciled in as the starter though. Go get a vet and draft a qb next year and I will be much more hopeful about the future of this franchise. 

Bryce should absolutely be penciled in as the starter going in to the offseason. If they can draft a guy or acquire a vet that improves the position, then AWESOME! Let there be competition. But change for the sake of change puts us back in the Browns and Jets territory. Bryce and the WRs/TEs need time to develop. 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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19 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I just don't understand how we want a third year QB to "ball out" with a rookie WR as his #1, a rookie TE as his #1 TE, 2 sophomore WRs (one is a 1st rounder that is being outplayed by the other who is an UDFA), a sophomore TE that struggles with blocking, and Tommy Tremble. 

And all of that with what's now a 2nd year HC, who's calling plays for his third time - ever!

This is a super young team that is outperforming expectations right now. The Panthers are winning games against better teams and the QB is a big reason why. You have to give Bryce, TMac, Legette, Coker, Evans, Sanders and Canales time. 

Otherwise we could just be the Browns or the Jets. No one wants that anymore. If they were going backwards, then yes, blow it up again. They aren't. They're getting better. They look like an actual competent NFL team. They're wildly inconsistent because they're incredibly young and inexperienced. All of them. Not just Bryce. But they're arrow is pointing up, so we should be patient and ride it out. It could be alot worse. A lot worse. 

it's 2025 and Bryce is the #1 overall.  a 3rd year player that is supposed to lift those around him. There is no huge development curve in today's NFL.   Offenses and throws are now simplistic.  He has great OL play and a great rushing attack.   And it's bottom tier production form him.  It's just excuse making for a player that overwhelming lacks the tools you want in a NFL QB that doesn't do any of the things he was billed at. 

Drake Maye leads the NFL in passing yards.  With a meh OL.  A meh rush attack.  One good WR yet problem child WR that is probably 4th on the team in getting into the endzone. 

Bryce Young is a literal anomaly in the NFL.  We have seen for 3 years as  to why .....yet the the gymnastics are never ending.  We are winning in spite of him.  Which is all the more reason a young and overachieving team should address such an issue. 

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Shotgun Grand Master

Shotgun

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11 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Bryce should absolutely be penciled in as the starter going in to the offseason. If they can draft a guy or acquire a vet that improves the position, then AWESOME! Let there be competition. But change for the sake of change puts us back in the Browns and Jets territory. Bryce and the WRs/TEs need time to develop. 

Short of Young winning out and taking us to the playoffs, we need to aggressively go after a QB this off season. Alex Smith was a better player than Young but the chiefs still wanted to upgrade. That's what well run teams do.  

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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4 minutes ago, CRA said:

I don't think it's discounting wins if you look at your team that manages to overachieve and point out what they are overcoming.     People generally are cool w/ that mostly.  It's basically cherry picked when you can and can't do it by fans. 

This season is really weird.  It's not discounting wins to point out how weird it is and that there really isn't some formula we are executing each week.  It's just a collection of sort of oddities. 

Some seasons you just have weirdly good or bad luck.  It's in our favor this year.  The hope is you get the good juju in a year you also happen to be a good football team.  

There is no amount of mental gymnastics that will ever justify making the statement "we won in spite of him".

I could cite a number of games where Cam Newton, Jake Delhomme, Brett Favre, John Elway and plenty of others looked like horsesh-t for a significant portion of the game, but somehow still did enough to win. That's football.

The facts are:

Bryce Young is an NFL quarterback.

Bryce Young is legitimately capable of winning NFL games.

Bryce Young deserves credit for his part in all of our wins under his leadership.

...

All of these statements are validated by the simple truth of what we've seen with our own eyes.

Is there still a valid argument to be made that Bryce should not be made our "franchise" quarterback. Yes there is, and I would remind everyone in this thread that I'm one of the people trying to make it. 

But...

Those facts cited above cannot be discounted or disproved.

They must be acknowledged, and any argument which doesn't loses touch with reality.

And as a consequence of their validity, my attempts to articulate this argument become...

...significantly more difficult.

I'll still make the argument, but that effort will not include any denial of the truth. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I think Bryce gets the 5th year option picked up, but I do not think that means the team doesn't pursue an upgrade at the QB position through the draft or free agency.

I have no doubt whatsoever that they're going to seek a capable backup. 

I see no guarantee that player will compete for a starting role.

It is possible, but it's not a certainty.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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54 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I just don't understand how we want a third year QB to "ball out" with a rookie WR as his #1, a rookie TE as his #1 TE, 2 sophomore WRs (one is a 1st rounder that is being outplayed by the other who is an UDFA), a sophomore TE that struggles with blocking, and Tommy Tremble. 

And all of that with what's now a 2nd year HC, who's calling plays for his third time - ever!

This is a super young team that is outperforming expectations right now. The Panthers are winning games against better teams and the QB is a big reason why. You have to give Bryce, TMac, Legette, Coker, Evans, Sanders and Canales time. 

Otherwise we could just be the Browns or the Jets. No one wants that anymore. If they were going backwards, then yes, blow it up again. They aren't. They're getting better. They look like an actual competent NFL team. They're wildly inconsistent because they're incredibly young and inexperienced. All of them. Not just Bryce. But they're arrow is pointing up, so we should be patient and ride it out. It could be alot worse. A lot worse. 

Some people want a different kind of quarterback, a few of them because they can't let go of Cam Newton.

They may (or in a few cases, may not) acknowledge Cam isn't coming back, but even in that scenario they still want somebody like him.

(or at the very least, someone bigger and stronger than Bryce)

I want better than Bryce too, but when it comes down to it, winning will always be the most important thing.

It happening with a player I'm conflicted about does not diminish my enjoyment to even the most miniscule degree. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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52 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

I agree about giving them time. The Panthers would be foolish to go into next year with Young penciled in as the starter though. Go get a vet and draft a qb next year and I will be much more hopeful about the future of this franchise. 

I just don't see that happening.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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49 minutes ago, CRA said:

it's 2025 and Bryce is the #1 overall.  a 3rd year player that is supposed to lift those around him. There is no huge development curve in today's NFL.   Offenses and throws are now simplistic.  He has great OL play and a great rushing attack.   And it's bottom tier production form him.  It's just excuse making for a player that overwhelming lacks the tools you want in a NFL QB that doesn't do any of the things he was billed at. 

Drake Maye leads the NFL in passing yards.  With a meh OL.  A meh rush attack.  One good WR yet problem child WR that is probably 4th on the team in getting into the endzone. 

Bryce Young is a literal anomaly in the NFL.  We have seen for 3 years as  to why .....yet the the gymnastics are never ending.  We are winning in spite of him.  Which is all the more reason a young and overachieving team should address such an issue. 

She's not sitting on an island alone with this opinion either.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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39 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

Short of Young winning out and taking us to the playoffs, we need to aggressively go after a QB this off season. Alex Smith was a better player than Young but the chiefs still wanted to upgrade. That's what well run teams do.  

Are we a well run team? 

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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1 hour ago, Shotgun said:

Short of Young winning out and taking us to the playoffs, we need to aggressively go after a QB this off season. Alex Smith was a better player than Young but the chiefs still wanted to upgrade. That's what well run teams do.  

Aggressively go after a QB? Like 2 first rounders, a second rounder and TMac aggressive? That's what got us here. Build the team, then get the QB. If you think this passing offense is set minus BY today, you're not being honest with yourself. Now they have potential, but they aren't as good as many seem to think. I can't think of any games this season where I said yeah our receivers and TEs are better than theirs.

If they can upgrade QB without doing something ridiculous, then I'm all for it. If not, then continue to improve the TEAM and THEN get your rookie QB like they should have done 3 seasons ago.

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MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

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I think Bryce is going to be brought back, but I also think it is a good year to draft a QB in the middle rounds who might fall.  There are some who were once thought to be first rounders and who are suddenly 2nd or 3rd rounders.  One example is Sellers who is supposedly falling into the late first--if he continues to drop, we'd be stupid not to move up into the early second and take him--imo.  He is Cam Lite, if you ask me.  Of course, as the draft gets closer, there will be premiums put on QBs.  We can already put Simpson, Moore, Mendoza in the top 5 or so, imo, the next tier is where the QB value is going to be

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Shotgun Grand Master

Shotgun

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1 minute ago, Navy_football said:

Aggressively go after a QB? Like 2 first rounders, a second rounder and TMac aggressive? That's what got us here. Build the team, then get the QB. If you think this passing offense is set minus BY today, you're not being honest with yourself. Now they have potential, but they aren't as good as many seem to think. I can't think of any games this season where I said yeah our receivers and TEs are better than theirs.

If they can upgrade QB without doing something ridiculous, then I'm all for it. If not, then continue to improve the TEAM and THEN get your rookie QB like they should have done 3 seasons ago.

 lol no. The Young trade was one of the worst ever. Never want to see that happen again.  

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      Okay gentlemen, REAL talk...

      By CRA · Posted

      Teams can win in spite of bad offense.  In spite of bad defense.  In spite of bad ST.  In spite of being weak at corner.  In spite of weak WRs.  In spite of weak QB play.  like I said, what is taking place is the unique cherry pick where some fans say we can't state the obvious reality about the QB spot.  But look at Atlanta!  But look at these 3 throws in this game he was treated as a backup for every single other snap!  Exceptions don't make the rule or change the big picture. I have seen lots of your post, I don't recall you rushing to Philly Brown's defense when it was just matter of fact stated Cam Newton won NFL MVP/went to the Super Bowl despite a weak WR cast.  The entire board universally agreed the weak link to that roster was what it was.     I would reckon if I searched hard enough, I could find you making the same matter of statement that teams do in fact win in spite of very clear weaknesses. 
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