First 4 NFL starts - Tyler Shough

[strato]

Sycophants sold out to Young falsely portray doubters as not wanting to win. 
Lame. We want to win. Of course. But one barely winning season at 9-8 doesn’t prove poo in the big picture. It feels good, sure. Fine. 

It is more we don’t believe Young, so far, has demonstrated that he is the answer. And having the answer is far more important to us than a single season’s winning record. That maybe… maybe, happens by a game. 
How many real games has he had that can demand we bow down to a multi year commitment and declare the issue settled? Not enough for us. And that is the big picture objective.

I would bet collectively we see the people who are sold off of the three or four good games while ignoring equal numbers of bad games - some that we somehow still won, some we lost - as not having high enough standards. 

[mrcompletely11]

8 hours ago, cranky said:

Well than so are Baker Mayfield, Jayden Daniels, Bo Nix, Michael Penix, Trevor Lawrence, Cam Ward and Caleb Williams. Are you claiming they should all be dumped because they are also below average?

Goddamn dude.  You can't be this stupid 

[CRA]

10 hours ago, cranky said:

He is 22nd in comp% ahead of Baker Mayfield, Jayden Daniels, Bo Nix, Michael Penix, Trevor Lawrence, Cam Ward and Caleb Williams. 

The league averge is 64.6. Young is currently 63.4%. I'm not sure a little over 1% difference below average is worth complaining about.

Youngs' rating is 87.9, just behind Caleb Williams 88.2, Michael Penix 88.5 and CJ Stroud 91.1.

Are these stats really what you are using to trash Young with.

No, he is 25th amongst qualifying QBs.  Go check ESPN. 

and it's not just ONE stat for Bryce.  It's all the big production measures.  Every.  Single.  Season. 

If Bryce Young isn't below average.  Below average doesn't exist.  You are eliminating it lol. 

this is why people are forced into being haters.  It's denial of reality. 

[CRA]

9 hours ago, cranky said:

Saying their numbers are below average because they have played injured is just making excuses that do not hold up. They did not play hurt. They played till they got hurt and then they didn't play - simple. 

Funny you failed to bring up Caleb Williams.

Mayfield is below Young in: comp % (63.4 vs 62.4), TD % (5.0 vs 4.9) and success rate (44.9 vs 44.1). He is not way above the average in any stat - none. Not even "a bunch".

And since you ask, Young is not only above average, but is the best QB on 4th downs. His passer rating on 4th downs is 156.3, ahead of Mahommes, Mays, Geoff, Allen, Hurts, Preskott, etc. Not only is it the best, but he also is near the top in attempts so it's not like he had one attempt and it worked.  Mayfield for comparison is anear the bottom on 4th downs with a rating of 30.1.

Another area Young is above average with is GWD and 4th qtr comebacks - since you asked.

 

so are you saying Bryce Young is indeed below average in every individual aspect a QB is in measured......but his 4th down completion % somehow trumps all of that? lmao.   Yeah, that's below average QB play. 

GWD is a team accomplishment.  Which is why Young is attached to some he didn't complete a pass in. 

 

[cranky]

10 hours ago, mav1234 said:

You aren't worried about rushing numbers and I'm not worried about completion percentages...  Mayfield is a kind of QB that will always have a lower completion percentage.  Mayfield is also not a superstar, but he's good, and he also had had an offense that was completely ravaged by injuries this year.

Over Mayfield's career, he has a 95.4, 94.2, and 83.1 QB rating on 1st, 2nd, 3rd down. This year he's at 88.9, 106.6, 87.3.  

Bryce's career he is 88, 72.5, 75.7 on 1st/2nd/3rd; this year he's 94.4, 80.1, 73.4 

Stats are relatively useless but when a player is below average in virtually everything, it tells you a lot about their general performance. I am still holding out hope he improves but you sound like you'd be content with 2025 Bryce playing for us for the next decade.  He is clutch on 4th, meh on other downs, but yeah he has a great TD%. I hope he improves, but I am getting skeptical. He is so inconsistent.

A QB's primary function is to pass the ball but you don't care about the comp %. That says a lot right there.

Mayfield is 90.1, 100.9, 84.2 and 30.1 on downs this year after yesterdays game. Young is at 94.4, 80.1, 73.4 and 156.3 this year. So Young is better on 1st and 4th downs while Baker is better on 2nd and third. So it's a split.

How about per quarter.

Young is 85.3, 69.0, 110.2 and 86.8 in 1st/2nd/3rd/4th quarters. Mayfield is 84.2, 90.5, 108.7 and 82.6. Young has better numbers in 3 of the 4 qtrs.

Again, show me were Mayfield is "quite a bit ahead of the average in many categories" because I can't find them.

 

[cranky]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

so are you saying Bryce Young is indeed below average in every individual aspect a QB is in measured......but his 4th down completion % somehow trumps all of that? lmao.   Yeah, that's below average QB play. 

GWD is a team accomplishment.  Which is why Young is attached to some he didn't complete a pass in. 

 

No I am saying your arguement that Young is bad because he's below average in yards, comp % and rating is a weak arguement. Claiming a QB is trash because they are at 63.1% when the average is 64.% is stupid. Yeah, it's true they are below average but so are the other 16 QB's that are below average as well

 

[csx]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

so are you saying Bryce Young is indeed below average in every individual aspect a QB is in measured......but his 4th down completion % somehow trumps all of that? lmao.   Yeah, that's below average QB play. 

GWD is a team accomplishment.  Which is why Young is attached to some he didn't complete a pass in. 

 

Could be worse. Captain Clempsun is sub 60% completion 

[cranky]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

No, he is 25th amongst qualifying QBs.  Go check ESPN. 

and it's not just ONE stat for Bryce.  It's all the big production measures.  Every.  Single.  Season. 

If Bryce Young isn't below average.  Below average doesn't exist.  You are eliminating it lol. 

this is why people are forced into being haters.  It's denial of reality. 

Look at the chart. if you are claiming his numbers prove he not  an NFL caliber QB, than neither is Bo Nix, Trevor Lawrence, Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels, Michael Penix, CJ Stroud, Baker Mayfield and Mahommes. They are all below average and within 2 points of Youngs' numbers.

 

[mav1234]

16 minutes ago, cranky said:

A QB's primary function is to pass the ball but you don't care about the comp %. That says a lot right there.

Mayfield is 90.1, 100.9, 84.2 and 30.1 on downs this year after yesterdays game. Young is at 94.4, 80.1, 73.4 and 156.3 this year. So Young is better on 1st and 4th downs while Baker is better on 2nd and third. So it's a split.

How about per quarter.

Young is 85.3, 69.0, 110.2 and 86.8 in 1st/2nd/3rd/4th quarters. Mayfield is 84.2, 90.5, 108.7 and 82.6. Young has better numbers in 3 of the 4 qtrs.

Again, show me were Mayfield is "quite a bit ahead of the average in many categories" because I can't find them.

 

Completion percentage depends on the offense and type of QB.  So no I don't care about a raw comparison lol. If you don't know what I mean by that I don't know what to tell you.

As to Baker, this is the second time you've ignored me and claimed I didn't say something when I did. I'm going to just stop r spending to that crap soon but on the possibility you are just missing these things in good faith - "Baker Mayfield is 11th in QBR, 14th in yards despite the TON of injuries that offense has had, 10th in QB rushing yards, 12th in TDs (and above the average in TD% lol), 25th in INTs (league average would be something like 16th). So yes, he's quite a bit ahead of the average in many categories."

Rushing yards by a QB DO matter. You'd think Panthers fans would know that.  Some of Bryce's best plays have come when he uses his legs too, and some of that IS yards on the ground.

And the reality is that Tampa has had crazy injury issues and if you look at Bakers career he is unquestionably more successful than Bryce and above average at that. This year his top 3 WRs have all missed considerable time and whose best player on offense hasn't played almost all year...

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, cranky said:

Look at the chart. if you are claiming his numbers prove he not  an NFL caliber QB, than neither is Bo Nix, Trevor Lawrence, Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels, Michael Penix, CJ Stroud, Baker Mayfield and Mahommes. They are all below average and within 2 points of Youngs' numbers.

 

LOL Mahomes

You're a troll. You have to be.

[CRA]

22 minutes ago, cranky said:

Look at the chart. if you are claiming his numbers prove he not  an NFL caliber QB, than neither is Bo Nix, Trevor Lawrence, Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels, Michael Penix, CJ Stroud, Baker Mayfield and Mahommes. They are all below average and within 2 points of Youngs' numbers.

 

Again, ONE stat doesn't make you below average or average.  Bryce Young.  EVERY.  SINGLE.  SEASON.  is below average in all the major ways we judge QB production.   

I can repeat it for you if you would like.   He is 25th on among qualifying QBs and you can go to ESPN.  ESPN includes more QBs than the ones shown there. But again, you are fixated on Bryce making the epic ride from 25th to 22nd.....which is still below average and ignoring all his other below average production lol. 

and again, if Bryce Young doesn't deliver year in and year out below average production, then it isn't a thing and you are voiding it from existence.  It's pretty simple

[cranky]

3 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Completion percentage depends on the offense and type of QB.  So no I don't care about a raw comparison lol. If you don't know what I mean by that I don't know what to tell you.

As to Baker, this is the second time you've ignored me and claimed I didn't say something when I did. I'm going to just stop r spending to that crap soon but on the possibility you are just missing these things in good faith - "Baker Mayfield is 11th in QBR, 14th in yards despite the TON of injuries that offense has had, 10th in QB rushing yards, 12th in TDs (and above the average in TD% lol), 25th in INTs (league average would be something like 16th). So yes, he's quite a bit ahead of the average in many categories."

Rushing yards by a QB DO matter. You'd think Panthers fans would know that.  Some of Bryce's best plays have come when he uses his legs too, and some of that IS yards on the ground.

And the reality is that Tampa has had crazy injury issues and if you look at Bakers career he is unquestionably more successful than Bryce and above average at that. This year his top 3 WRs have all missed considerable time and whose best player on offense hasn't played almost all year...

The funny thing is when I brought up Youngs lack of talent and coaching his first year, I was told "your just making excuses". When I brought up that maybe some of Youngs early struggles this year were in part because of lack of experience in receivers, I was told "your just making excuses" again. But when you talk about Mayfields' performance this year, you point put all the injuries contributing to his low numbers. When CRA talks about Lawrences' low numbers this year, in another post, he blames them on his receivers "letting him down". Double standards.

Anyway, Mayfield is 14th in QBR at 60 as of this morning. That's 2 spots above average. Hardly "quite a bit above average".

Unlike the hard core haters on this board, I will admit that a QB's numbers are dependant on the talent around him and agree Mayfields numbers have been affected by injuries this season. I am not trying to trash Mayfield. I am just claiming CRA's post that Young sucks because his numbers are below average is misguided as they are pretty much in line with Baker Mayfield, Jayden Daniels, Bo Nix, Michael Penix, Trevor Lawrence, Cam Ward and Caleb Williams numbers. 

 

 

[mrcompletely11]

godalmighty cranky is into the sauce early

[cranky]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

Again, ONE stat doesn't make you below average or average.  Bryce Young.  EVERY.  SINGLE.  SEASON.  is below average in all the major ways we judge QB production.   

I can repeat it for you if you would like.   He is 25th on among qualifying QBs and you can go to ESPN.  ESPN includes more QBs than the ones shown there. But again, you are fixated on Bryce making the epic ride from 25th to 22nd.....which is still below average and ignoring all his other below average production lol. 

and again, if Bryce Young doesn't deliver year in and year out below average production, then it isn't a thing and you are voiding it from existence.  It's pretty simple

Again, it's not one stat. The chart is from Pro-Football-Reference as of this morning. The difference between Young and any of the other QBs between the Orange highlights is significantly insignificant. So if you are claiming Young should be replaced based upon those numbers, than so should everyone around him - which is just foolish.