First 4 NFL starts - Tyler Shough

[cranky]

40 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

We don’t currently have 9 wins.

I didn’t care about a winning season before it started and I still don’t. I care about building a consistent winning organization. We haven’t had that in 3 decades. This season was always about, did we have a franchise QB?

Take away the name and the draft position and evaluate the play over the course of the season and I think he hasn’t been good enough to label this QB as a franchise elevating player. He has required an unsustainable amount of resources to make him a bottom tier QB. 
 

Our defense has been middle of the road despite having among the least amount of dedicated cap in the league. We are relying on 2 rookies for our pass rush because we’ve spent heavily in draft and FA on offense.
 

This QB doesn’t make our team a contender for the next decade. I won’t pretend otherwise. 

I didn't say they did - CRA did and just responded to him saying "9 wins wouldn't mean much to him." That just seems foolish.

Needless to say you saying you could care less about the Panthers' having a winning season just proves you care more about your own "Bryce Young sucks" narrative than the Panther's having success. 

[TN05]

There's a ton of people in this thread that would rather we be 0-13 than in the playoffs and it shows.

[SmokinwithWilly]

11 minutes ago, cranky said:

I didn't say they did - CRA did and just responded to him saying "9 wins wouldn't mean much to him." That just seems foolish.

Needless to say you saying you could care less about the Panthers' having a winning season just proves you care more about your own "Bryce Young sucks" narrative than the Panther's having success. 

No it doesn't. We've put 3 years worth of resources into him. I want him to be successful. His success means the team is successful. Him not being a success is bad for the team. Him not being a success and the front office thinking he is and offering a huge contract is catastrophic. I can differentiate between these things. Obviously you can't. 

[CRA]

52 minutes ago, cranky said:

Bryce has had below average games, he has not been a below average QB. 

He is 29th in yards per game among qualifying QBs. 

He is 28th in completion % among qualifying QBs

has has the 25th QB rating among qualifying QBs

Bryce Young is 100% a below average starting QB.  This is not debate.  Your feelings don’t trump the reality of his production.  

he is top 10 in turnovers though.  Which Voids him being average-ish in TDs. 

[cranky]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

He is 29th in yards per game among qualifying QBs. 

He is 28th in completion % among qualifying QBs

has has the 25th QB rating among qualifying QBs

Bryce Young is 100% a below average starting QB.  This is not debate.  Your feelings don’t trump the reality of his production 

He is 22nd in comp% ahead of Baker Mayfield, Jayden Daniels, Bo Nix, Michael Penix, Trevor Lawrence, Cam Ward and Caleb Williams. 

The league averge is 64.6. Young is currently 63.4%. I'm not sure a little over 1% difference below average is worth complaining about.

Youngs' rating is 87.9, just behind Caleb Williams 88.2, Michael Penix 88.5 and CJ Stroud 91.1.

Are these stats really what you are using to trash Young with.

Edited 10 hours ago by cranky
clarity

[cranky]

1 hour ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

No it doesn't. We've put 3 years worth of resources into him. I want him to be successful. His success means the team is successful. Him not being a success is bad for the team. Him not being a success and the front office thinking he is and offering a huge contract is catastrophic. I can differentiate between these things. Obviously you can't. 

That statement just reinforces what I said earlier.

[mav1234]

27 minutes ago, cranky said:

He is 22nd in comp% ahead of Baker Mayfield, Jayden Daniels, Bo Nix, Michael Penix, Trevor Lawrence, Cam Ward and Caleb Williams. 

The league averge is 64.6. Young is currently 63.4%. I'm not sure a little over 1% difference below average is worth complaining about.

Youngs' rating is 87.9, just behind Caleb Williams 88.2, Michael Penix 88.5 and CJ Stroud 91.1.

Are these stats really what you are using to trash Young with.

so uh, which statistics is he actually at and above average? it sounds like he's below average in everything, which is what CRA was saying.

[cranky]

8 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

so uh, which statistics is he actually at and above average? it sounds like he's below average in everything, which is what CRA was saying.

Well than so are Baker Mayfield, Jayden Daniels, Bo Nix, Michael Penix, Trevor Lawrence, Cam Ward and Caleb Williams. Are you claiming they should all be dumped because they are also below average?

[mav1234]

11 minutes ago, cranky said:

Well than so are Baker Mayfield, Jayden Daniels, Bo Nix, Michael Penix, Trevor Lawrence, Cam Ward and Caleb Williams. Are you claiming they should all be dumped because they are also below average?

Cam Ward is a rookie, Jayden Daniels has been injured all year, Penix has missed several weeks, Baker Mayfield is way above the average in a bunch of league stats, Bo Nix is top third in a bunch of them, Trevor Lawrence and Michael Penix are probably average NFL starters and their teams may indeed move on from them, and Caleb Williams is still unknown 2 years in.  

Cam Ward is the only one of those that is basically worse than Bryce in every stat (other than Y/G, lol, where he is barely ahead).

So again which stats is Bryce at / above the league average?  I know which he is, do you?

Edited 9 hours ago by mav1234

[cranky]

4 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Cam Ward is a rookie, Jayden Daniels has been injured all year, Penix has missed several weeks, Baker Mayfield is way above the average in a bunch of league stats, Bo Nix is top third in a bunch of them, Trevor Lawrence and Michael Penix are probably average NFL starters and their teams may indeed move on from them, and Caleb Williams is still unknown 2 years in.  

Cam Ward is the only one of those that is basically worse than Bryce in every stat (other than Y/G, lol, where he is barely ahead).

So again which stats is Bryce at / above the league average?  I know which he is, do you?

Saying their numbers are below average because they have played injured is just making excuses that do not hold up. They did not play hurt. They played till they got hurt and then they didn't play - simple. 

Funny you failed to bring up Caleb Williams.

Mayfield is below Young in: comp % (63.4 vs 62.4), TD % (5.0 vs 4.9) and success rate (44.9 vs 44.1). He is not way above the average in any stat - none. Not even "a bunch".

And since you ask, Young is not only above average, but is the best QB on 4th downs. His passer rating on 4th downs is 156.3, ahead of Mahommes, Mays, Geoff, Allen, Hurts, Preskott, etc. Not only is it the best, but he also is near the top in attempts so it's not like he had one attempt and it worked.  Mayfield for comparison is anear the bottom on 4th downs with a rating of 30.1.

Another area Young is above average with is GWD and 4th qtr comebacks - since you asked.

 

[mav1234]

17 minutes ago, cranky said:

Saying their numbers are below average because they have played injured is just making excuses that do not hold up. They did not play hurt. They played till they got hurt and then they didn't play - simple. 

Funny you failed to bring up Caleb Williams.

Mayfield is below Young in: comp % (63.4 vs 62.4), TD % (5.0 vs 4.9) and success rate (44.9 vs 44.1). He is not way above the average in any stat - none. Not even "a bunch".

And since you ask, Young is not only above average, but is the best QB on 4th downs. His passer rating on 4th downs is 156.3, ahead of Mahommes, Mays, Geoff, Allen, Hurts, Preskott, etc. Not only is it the best, but he also is near the top in attempts so it's not like he had one attempt and it worked.  Mayfield for comparison is anear the bottom on 4th downs with a rating of 30.1.

Another area Young is above average with is GWD and 4th qtr comebacks - since you asked.

I didn't fail to bring up Caleb Williams, re-read my post.  I said he's an unknown. He's a 2nd year starter on a team winning games, but are they winning because of him? Hard to say, but he is contributing. 

Baker Mayfield is 11th in QBR, 14th in yards despite the TON of injuries that offense has had, 10th in QB rushing yards, 12th in TDs (and above the average in TD% lol), 25th in INTs (league average would be something like 16th).  So yes, he's quite a bit ahead of the average in many categories.

Bryce is only ahead of the average in specific situational stats (4th down, GWD, 4QCB) and in TDs. And yes, he's done well on 4th down, but in contrast his 2nd and 3rd down passing rating is awful.  Meanwhile, nearly every other player you listed is ahead of the average in multiple categories.

Also, on their careers, Mahomes is still ahead of Bryce in 4th quarter passer rating (108 vs 105). But Bryce is great there. Of course Mahomes is phenomenal on every down, but Bryce doesn't need to be Mahomes. I just hope he finds his way to being a better QB for us.

Edited 8 hours ago by mav1234

[cranky]

2 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I didn't fail to bring up Caleb Williams, re-read my post.  I said he's an unknown. He's a 2nd year starter on a team winning games, but are they winning because of him? Hard to say, but he is contributing. 

Baker Mayfield is 11th in QBR, 14th in yards despite the TON of injuries that offense has had, 10th in QB rushing yards, 12th in TDs (and above the average in TD% lol), 25th in INTs (league average would be something like 16th).  So yes, he's quite a bit ahead of the average in many categories.

Bryce is only ahead of the average in specific situational stats (4th down, GWD, 4QCB) and in TDs. And yes, he's done well on 4th down, but in contrast his 2nd and 3rd down passing rating is awful.  Meanwhile, nearly every other player you listed is ahead of the average in multiple categories.

Also, on their careers, Mahomes is still ahead of Bryce in 4th quarter passer rating (108 vs 105). But Bryce is great there. Of course Mahomes is phenomenal on every down, but Bryce doesn't need to be Mahomes. I just hope he finds his way to being a better QB for us.

Yes, Mayfield is above average with INT %. He's actually very good there. I'll give you that. 

I'm not worried about rushing numbers. 

Young is 67.5% on 1st, 66.2% on second and 57.6% on 3rd downs.

Mayfield is 59.2% on 1st, 66.4% on 2nd and 53.6% on 3rd downs.

I bring all of this up only because I think people on the board have an idea in their head that is not supported by the facts. Everyone keeps bringing up his bad stats but when you compare them to other QB's with similar experience, they are all pretty much statistically the same. Better in some areas, worse in others. 

 

[mav1234]

30 minutes ago, cranky said:

Yes, Mayfield is above average with INT %. He's actually very good there. I'll give you that. 

I'm not worried about rushing numbers. 

Young is 67.5% on 1st, 66.2% on second and 57.6% on 3rd downs.

Mayfield is 59.2% on 1st, 66.4% on 2nd and 53.6% on 3rd downs.

I bring all of this up only because I think people on the board have an idea in their head that is not supported by the facts. Everyone keeps bringing up his bad stats but when you compare them to other QB's with similar experience, they are all pretty much statistically the same. Better in some areas, worse in others. 

You aren't worried about rushing numbers and I'm not worried about completion percentages...  Mayfield is a kind of QB that will always have a lower completion percentage.  Mayfield is also not a superstar, but he's good, and he also had had an offense that was completely ravaged by injuries this year.

Over Mayfield's career, he has a 95.4, 94.2, and 83.1 QB rating on 1st, 2nd, 3rd down. This year he's at 88.9, 106.6, 87.3.  

Bryce's career he is 88, 72.5, 75.7 on 1st/2nd/3rd; this year he's 94.4, 80.1, 73.4 

Stats are relatively useless but when a player is below average in virtually everything, it tells you a lot about their general performance. I am still holding out hope he improves but you sound like you'd be content with 2025 Bryce playing for us for the next decade.  He is clutch on 4th, meh on other downs, but yeah he has a great TD%. I hope he improves, but I am getting skeptical. He is so inconsistent.

Edited 8 hours ago by mav1234

[Moonraker]

I'm content to see how the next 4 games play out. Mostly because there are no other options! These are certainly more important games than at the same time last year...let's just see what happens. It's exhausting constantly yelling about Bryce. He's here, will almost certainly be our starter next year as well. Nothing to do but sit back and watch, and have faith that DM and DC will make the best move available for the future success of the team. They've done a good job so far. Way better than anything else coming out of Carolina for the last 8 or so years.