Joe Person: Ickey is expected to be extended, Mays is someone we want to keep long term, TE, LB and OLB are our biggest needs heading into the offseason

[SmokinwithWilly]

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not talking about pressers. Guys like Dan Graziano, Joe Person and others talk to people behind the scenes. 

Team officials don't automatically think the way we do. They make decisions we disagree with. Sometimes they're right. Sometimes they're wrong.

Either way, you can't ever assume that their evaluations and conclusions are gonna be the same as ours. 

Well the decisions of Tepper and his minions have led to the worst record in sports in the last 8 years. They've been wrong a hell of a lot more than they've been right. I trust my conclusions a hell of a lot more than theirs. 

[strato]

4 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

And if Matthew Stafford has a historically awful day, Tet McMillan didn't drop a pass, Rico Dowdle was fully healthy and Xavier Legette was contributing, we might have won by even more.

You can use those sorts of "what if" scenarios to support any kind of point you want. I prefer not to even bother with them.

There was no ‘what if’ as in an alternate scenario. No Rico Dowdle strawman scenarios you are imagining. Simply a shoe on the other foot. A perspective. 

Allowing that to happen once, bad enough. But okay. Learn from it. Allowing it on the heels of the first one? It was was a clear dereliction by LA.

We sort of got a free one the second time. 

 

 

 

[Navy_football]

1 hour ago, strato said:

Allowing that to happen once, bad enough. But okay. Learn from it. Allowing it on the heels of the first one? It was was a clear dereliction by LA.

We sort of got a free one the second time. 

Nah, 2 great routes/adjustments with 2 great passes. Forbes is their best corner and has been playing very well this season, for a team widely considered to be a super bowl contender and arguably the best team in NFL. Leaving your best man corner on an island with Coker and TMac isn't a mistake. The outcome didn't work out for them in those plays but on paper it should have. If anything, he shouldn't have been beaten deep for TDs by either of them. He's a first round CB that ran a 4.35 at the combine at 6 feet tall. He's not just a guy. He's their Jaycee Horn. 

[Sup]

12 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not talking about pressers. Guys like Dan Graziano, Joe Person and others talk to people behind the scenes. 

Team officials don't automatically think the way we do. They make decisions we disagree with. Sometimes they're right. Sometimes they're wrong.

Either way, you can't ever assume that their evaluations and conclusions are gonna be the same as ours. 

I think you're going to be surprised by what happens this offseason then. yeah, maybe they pick up the 5th year option. But there is no way they're going to roll into 26 with only Bryce as a legitimate QB. And if he loses the job in camp or preseason, he loses it. The comparison to Mayfield is a huge stretch. Mayfield is a good QB, Bryce is not.

Edited 7 hours ago by Sup

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Sup said:

I think you're going to be surprised by what happens this offseason then. yeah, maybe they pick up the 5th year option. But there is no way they're going to roll into 26 with only Bryce as a legitimate QB. And if he loses the job in camp or preseason, he loses it. The comparison to Mayfield is a huge stretch. Mayfield is a good QB, Bryce is not.

I mean.....we have basically been Bryce or bust recently. We currently have both Bryce and Dalton under contract for 2026.

Are you that sure we are going to switch that up? You are aware the other QB's we have had on the roster and PS during Bryce's career have been Jack Plummer, Hendon Hooker, Mike White, and Jake Luton?

Does that seem very serious about upgrading to you?

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

15 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Most, if not all of them.

It isn't "coddling" either. It's standard practice. When a team names a starter, he's the guy. 

Like I said previously, the Bucs aren't going to go into next year telling Baker Mayfield he has to win the starting role again. He keeps it by default. That's how NFL teams operate.

Our feelings don't matter.

Since you don't believe in stats there's no way to have a rational discussion. Statistically, across all metrics that measure a QBs performance, for 3 years, Bryce has been the worst starter in the NFL. Where in any other sport, does the worst player in the league at his position play for 3 years without ever facing one day of competition for his job? 

And you're right, the Bucs aren't going to tell Baker that. He already knows it. It's the NFL. The highest level of football in the world. Not. For. Long. He already knows if he isn't the best QB on the team, chances are high that he could and should be replaced. Any competent coach/GM would do it or they could lose their job. 

But since you've said starters are entrenched, backups who've taken the starters job

Brady from Bledsoe

Romo from Bledsoe

Dak from Romo

R. Wilson from Matt Flynn

Hurts from Wentz

Kaepernick from Smith

Cousins from RG3

Tannehill from Marriota

Warner from Green

And a little closer to home

Delhomme from Rodney Peete.

There's a few

 

[kungfoodude]

23 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Since you don't believe in stats there's no way to have a rational discussion. Statistically, across all metrics that measure a QBs performance, for 3 years, Bryce has been the worst starter in the NFL. Where in any other sport, does the worst player in the league at his position play for 3 years without ever facing one day of competition for his job? 

And you're right, the Bucs aren't going to tell Baker that. He already knows it. It's the NFL. The highest level of football in the world. Not. For. Long. He already knows if he isn't the best QB on the team, chances are high that he could and should be replaced. Any competent coach/GM would do it or they could lose their job. 

But since you've said starters are entrenched, backups who've taken the starters job

Brady from Bledsoe

Romo from Bledsoe

Dak from Romo

R. Wilson from Matt Flynn

Hurts from Wentz

Kaepernick from Smith

Cousins from RG3

Tannehill from Marriota

Warner from Green

And a little closer to home

Delhomme from Rodney Peete.

There's a few

 

I mean he isn't really wrong in a certain sense. Usually jobs are attached to big QB decisions(coaching or FO) so it's less likely for an entrenched starter to lose that job unless it is by some other factor(extremely poor play, contract situation, coaching/FO change/direction, etc).

If the FO or coaching staff think they have their QB, they aren't likely to give another QB a serious shot unless the situation can threaten their jobs. 

The NFL is still about winning but personnel decisions can still end up being a bit beauracratic or certainly political. 

We see it even on the current team outside of Bryce.

[Sup]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean.....we have basically been Bryce or bust recently. We currently have both Bryce and Dalton under contract for 2026.

Are you that sure we are going to switch that up? You are aware the other QB's we have had on the roster and PS during Bryce's career have been Jack Plummer, Hendon Hooker, Mike White, and Jake Luton?

Does that seem very serious about upgrading to you?

 

That's a legitimate question. I think two things here.

One, I think there is a recognition it was a mistake to roll with Dalton as the only other QB. At a total minimum I am certain Dalton will be cut and a real backup brought in. Could be a vet Mariota or Winston or could be younger upside guy like Howell or Lance. But I'd bet anything that will happen.

Two, the better we are the more obvious it is that we could be legit if we had a good QB. When we sucked it was easy to give Bryce a pass and let him grow as a passer. Times have changed. We could make a playoff run with just decent QB play. We will either sign Jones or throw darts to see what we get.

Last, Tepper may like Bryce and want to protect his ego for drafting him, but you don't make a billion without being cold blooded when necessary. Canales and Morgan aren't dumb. They will tell Tepper at a minimum we need real competition, and he will pitch Bryce to the side if he thinks it means a shot at getting to the SB.

Too many people here (not you) think that because Bryce has been protected that will go on forever. It won't.

Edited 4 hours ago by Sup

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Sup said:

That's a legitimate question. I think two things here.

One, I think there is a recognition it was a mistake to roll with Dalton as the only other QB. At a total minimum I am certain Dalton will be but there and a real backup brought in. Could be a vet Mariota or Winston or could be younger upside guy like Howell or Lance. But I'd bet anything that will happen.

Two, the better we are the more obvious it is that we could be legit if we had a good QB. When we sucked it was easy to give Bryce a pass and let him grow as a passer. Times have changed. We could make a playoff run with just decent QB play. We will either sign Jones or throw darts to see what we get.

Last, Tepper may like Bryce and want to protect his ego for drafting him, but you don't make a billion without being cold blooded when necessary. Canales and Morgan aren't dumb. They will tell Tepper at a minimum we need real competition, and he will pitch Bryce to the side if he thinks it means a shot at getting to the SB.

Too many people here (not you) think that because Bryce has been protected that will go on forever. It won't.

I think you are making a lot of assumptions based on what we the fans see and putting that on our FO and coaching staff. Those two groups haven't really impressed me very much in the ability to recognize personnel and roster flaws in a timely fashion.

If I had to guess, I would be we are going to find out that a pretty big chunk of that same FO and coaching staff are very bullish on moving forward in 2026 with Bryce. 

Believe me, I hope I am wrong but I think the wins have them ignoring the obvious situation. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

15 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean he isn't really wrong in a certain sense. Usually jobs are attached to big QB decisions(coaching or FO) so it's less likely for an entrenched starter to lose that job unless it is by some other factor(extremely poor play, contract situation, coaching/FO change/direction, etc).

If the FO or coaching staff think they have their QB, they aren't likely to give another QB a serious shot unless the situation can threaten their jobs. 

The NFL is still about winning but personnel decisions can still end up being a bit beauracratic or certainly political. 

We see it even on the current team outside of Bryce.

Which was my point. And entrenched starter can lose his job due to extremely poor play and Bryce has had literally the worst QB play in the NFL since being drafted. He hasn't even had to face a remotely capable QB in camp and he's being kept starter for some other reason than performance after 3 years. I'd call that coddling. 

[strato]

9 hours ago, Navy_football said:

Nah, 2 great routes/adjustments with 2 great passes. Forbes is their best corner and has been playing very well this season, for a team widely considered to be a super bowl contender and arguably the best team in NFL. Leaving your best man corner on an island with Coker and TMac isn't a mistake. The outcome didn't work out for them in those plays but on paper it should have. If anything, he shouldn't have been beaten deep for TDs by either of them. He's a first round CB that ran a 4.35 at the combine at 6 feet tall. He's not just a guy. He's their Jaycee Horn. 

You can’t be my DC. You were burned over the top for a TD once, and did not adjust.  And got burned again. With playoff seeding at stake.  
 

It is arguably a more egregious response or lack of adjustment than Wilks failing to account for Mike Evans twice after being burned deep once, in a game that had playoffs on the line. And a possible future as the HC of the Panthers. 
 

[Mr. Scot]

11 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Well the decisions of Tepper and his minions have led to the worst record in sports in the last 8 years. They've been wrong a hell of a lot more than they've been right. I trust my conclusions a hell of a lot more than theirs. 

Sorry but I think that's rationalizing. 

We wanna say "it must be Tepper" because we don't want to believe that Canales / Morgan / Tilis and company see Bryce differently than we do.

Truth though is that It isn't really farfetched to believe they do. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, Sup said:

I think you're going to be surprised by what happens this offseason then. yeah, maybe they pick up the 5th year option. But there is no way they're going to roll into 26 with only Bryce as a legitimate QB. And if he loses the job in camp or preseason, he loses it. The comparison to Mayfield is a huge stretch. Mayfield is a good QB, Bryce is not.

It's not a comparison to Mayfield. It's an illustration of how NFL teams work and think.

And sorry, but what you're hoping to see here is wishful thinking. 

[Mr. Scot]

54 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean he isn't really wrong in a certain sense. Usually jobs are attached to big QB decisions(coaching or FO) so it's less likely for an entrenched starter to lose that job unless it is by some other factor(extremely poor play, contract situation, coaching/FO change/direction, etc).

If the FO or coaching staff think they have their QB, they aren't likely to give another QB a serious shot unless the situation can threaten their jobs. 

The NFL is still about winning but personnel decisions can still end up being a bit beauracratic or certainly political. 

We see it even on the current team outside of Bryce.

This is what everyone doesn'tseem to understand...

...or doesn't want to accept