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Go after Shedeur this offseason.

Proudiddy

By Proudiddy,
in Carolina Panthers

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Car123 Experienced

Car123

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2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I sure have. In most of those cases the statistical argument is extremely clear that even this season they are better than Bryce and in some cases you have QB's playing at or near the bottom end of their career results but basically being slightly worse or better than Bryce in his career best year.

The damning thing comes when you look at total body of work. Then it becomes obvious that all those QB's are a minimum of a tier above Bryce if not more than one tier above him.

I understand that we have seen blips of very good and good Bryce play this season but it's been very fleeting, similar to 2023 and 2024. Even at his "career bests" he would be on pace to have a very underwhelming season by non-Bryce standards.

How are they better than Bryce Statistically? Bryce literally has better stats than them this year.

No poo it’s his career best. How many quarterbacks have their best seasons in their first two seasons? 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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23 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Josh Allen was not a very good qb his first two years. His rookie season was worse than Young’s. He’s arguably the best in the league right now. Some QBs takes longer than others to mature. Bryce is showing progress. Bryce and the rest of the players have won 6 of their last 8 games. Bryce has played well for most of that stretch. I’m very hopeful he has turned the corner and will show positive consistency.

By year 2 Allen already had eclipsed the numbers Bryce is on pace for now. By year three, he was a Pro Bowler and MVP candidate.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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38 minutes ago, Car123 said:

The kid in Minnesota, Saints QB, Geno, Tua, Purdy, Stroud, Trevor Lawerence, Flacco, Fields, Caleb Williams, Penix jr.

I'll give you Nine, Geno, Tua, and Penix. Flacco was a guy playing due to injury, not a planned starter. I honestly think Bryce would probably only be playing better than Nine and Penix if you inserted him onto those respective rosters though.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 minute ago, Car123 said:

How are they better than Bryce Statistically? Bryce literally has better stats than them this year.

No poo it’s his career best. How many quarterbacks have their best seasons in their first two seasons? 

Pick your metrics. Do you want basic QB metrics, per game averages, advanced metrics? I can break down whatever you like but when I try to do this as a "general" thing then people immediately say that they don't like the stats. So, pick yours and we will take a look but I am going to add other statistical context that I think it relevant, although open for debate.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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19 minutes ago, toldozer said:

He's better than Geno.

He is having a modestly better season than Geno but Geno is a better QB. I will say that Geno also leads the league in sacks. Not to mention his season has been more efficient Bryce with more TO's so far. Hence why their QB Ratings are very close(87.9 vs. 84.5).

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

He is having a modestly better season than Geno but Geno is a better QB. I will say that Geno also leads the league in sacks. Not to mention his season has been more efficient Bryce with more TO's so far. Hence why their QB Ratings are very close(87.9 vs. 84.5).

I don’t know what that line in LV is doing but blocking isn’t it. They’re getting jumped more than a subway turnstile. 

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Car123 Experienced

Car123

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6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Pick your metrics. Do you want basic QB metrics, per game averages, advanced metrics? I can break down whatever you like but when I try to do this as a "general" thing then people immediately say that they don't like the stats. So, pick yours and we will take a look but I am going to add other statistical context that I think it relevant, although open for debate.

Whichever metric you prefer.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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19 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Young was great vs the Rams, Exceptional vs Atlanta. Give him his due. His passer rating vs LA was the 2nd highest in Panthers history. If Stafford had that stat line vs Carolina, Bryce haters would be chanting MVP.

But isn't that sort of what we are getting at? Having 1-3 average or better games per season is what you expect from your #2 QB, not a starting QB. Especially when most of the rest of the performances are mediocre to extremely bad. 

There are very few QB's in the NFL that can say that at the moment. That's basically less productive, Jets era Sam Darnold.

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Car123 Experienced

Car123

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6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

But isn't that sort of what we are getting at? Having 1-3 average or better games per season is what you expect from your #2 QB, not a starting QB. Especially when most of the rest of the performances are mediocre to extremely bad. 

There are very few QB's in the NFL that can say that at the moment. That's basically less productive, Jets era Sam Darnold.

The people who aren’t doomers have seen progress and are hoping he will continue to progress and become a consistently great quarterback. No one is saying this is the finished product and has played well all year.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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38 minutes ago, Car123 said:

. If Stafford had that stat line vs Carolina, Bryce haters would be chanting MVP.

Literally no one would be celebrating Stafford barely hitting 200 yards in a game vs Carolina

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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18 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Sigh... go back and read the post I quoted and then honestly try to tell me you weren't cherry picking metrics to try to make your point. Then you pick two games (with a combined 14 passing attempts in them) out of 20 total games (with a combined 631 passing attempts in the other 18 games) to further demonstrate you aren't cherry picking? I mean... I guess I should thank you for taking the time to demonstrate my point. LOL

Nope, but I do see it happen a lot.

Again, it's why I don't bother with them. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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15 hours ago, TD alt said:

Oh it absolutely makes a difference to have your people talk to the GM in private than to make public proclamations. I really don't understand how anyone could say different, but I guess it's an opinion. 

I can't say what view the league had. I believe it was more about pre-draft stuff than anything that happened on day three. Of course the Browns drafted him 3 picks later, so at this point it doesn't really matter, as he's in the league.

Deion Sanders has taken a step back. He's always going to be in the picture to some extent because of who he is. As a father, it's OK to guide your son in private, and it's also OK to praise him publicly. 

The league demonstrated their view by not drafting him. 

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    • TD alt
      Go after Shedeur this offseason.

      By TD alt · Posted

      But that's just an opinion essentially based upon three games---basically nothing.  As for "great" career, that's in the eye of the beholder. I'd say that if he becomes a starter or even a high end backup, that may not be great, but it would be good. If he ends up a long term starter, then that is pretty great. But I could argue that less than a dozen QBs have had "great" careers for the last 50 years. It's just a matter of definition. There are certainly a number of QBs drafted higher than Sanders and with much higher expectations that have ended up as backups or out of the league altogether. If he has any kind of staying power, he's already overachieved according to many.   
    • CRA
      First 4 NFL starts - Tyler Shough

      By CRA · Posted

      So...yeah, the snark and whataboutism really just works as a dodge here.  So again, I'll lay it out one last time....are you actually willing to argue for the sake of arguing the Saints RBs in 2025 are better than ours?   and their OL?  Is that what you are doing here.  
    • CRA
      Go after Shedeur this offseason.

      By CRA · Posted

      I think outside noise was a MASSIVE factor.  Teams don't want it.  And it gets really hard to have it for anyone that isn't your star player.   I do think for example, if Skip Bayless didn't exist and that circus....NFL teams would have loved the utility player/locker room presence of a The Golden Calf of Bristol after he flamed out as a starting QB.  Same thing.  But he basically was deemed unsignable because a Taysom Hill role player can't be taking up the air waves/oxygen ,  press conferences and be a national spectacle every single day for a coach/staff to deal with.  I mean, Saunders is literally a walking reality TV show 
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