Go after Shedeur this offseason.

[Car123]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Because guys slightly worse than Bryce or slightly better…..don’t get to be starter vs 3 straight seasons.    They all come and go. Thats how he is the worst starting QB since he was drafted.  Players worse or close to him….go away and he remains.   

so is he better than JJ? Sure.  But JJ will go away.   Just like a Spencer Rattler.  So they don’t get to compete for the worst over a window of time….where they only exist for a season. 

so you could say Cam Ward is the worst QB in 2025

Bryce remains the worst from 2023 to date.  Anyone as bad is gone. 

and Ward’s draft status likely won’t give him Bryce’s time.  Bryce get extra for being way more than a #1 overall blunder.  He was multiple. 

Well, yeah, if you’re the #1 overall pick you get some leeway, especially when you’ve shown major progression from year 1.

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Well, yeah, if you’re the #1 overall pick you get some leeway, especially when you’ve shown major progression from year 1.

That’s the unique Bryce only scale of improvement .  He isn’t getting #1 pick leeway.  He is getting we gave up the farm for him leeway (which there are very few comps of). 

there is no major progression.   Team around him has gotten better.  Bryce has been a very consistent player in all honesty. 

[Car123]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

That’s the unique Bryce only scale of improvement .  He isn’t getting #1 pick leeway.  He is getting we gave up the farm for him leeway (which there are very few comps of). 

there is no major progression.   Team around him has gotten better.  Bryce has been a very consistent player in all honesty. 

Jamarcus Russell got 3 years, Ryan Leaf 3 years, Jake Locker 3 years, Gabbert 3 years, etc., etc. I could go on. Those players didn’t improve so they were cut. If you think Bryce is the same qb as his rookie season then I don’t know what to say tbh. You’re clearly wrong

[Mr. Scot]

44 minutes ago, frankw said:

At this point more threads are just creating more spats. We've got 4 more days until we get answers. Just wait it out and then resume.

I was damn proud of that thread too

Hell, it wasn't even a pro Bryce thread (which it wouldn't be given that I'm not pro-Bryce). Just a minor treatise on why I don't go by stats.

Got a few trollish responses from some of the usual suspects but it wasn't anywhere near as contentious as the average thread gets anymore.

I'm mystified

[Mr. Scot]

6 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Well I'm watching every game this season so it's the same football, same time frame. I see things differently than you do. I can't tell what your actual opinion is because lately it's been coming from Joe Person and others. 

For someone who doesnt believe in stats you sure as poo seem to be hung up on them. And let's not forget, Jake was a practice squad QB, not the number 1 overall draft pick. They aren't even comparable in expectations of past performance or expected level of QB play. 

I didn't even mention stats for the 1st 2 years with Bryce. That would be you. What he looked like from the 1st 2 years was that same QB with the same god awful mechanics making throws squared up to the line, not driving his passes, bailing out of the pocket too early, sloppy footwork on drop backs, hopping to get his pass over the line because he's not tall enough to actually throw over a defensive player. When things aren't perfect, he looks like that same awful rookie player. That's why I said you can't ignore past performance. You go back and look to see if he's still doing those things or if he's developing. 

NFL game performance isn't cumulative. Week 15 Bryce isn't the same as Week 1 Bryce.

And i gotta go back again to the should / will distinction. My opinion of Bryce is that he's not good enough. My expectation of what's gonna happen is that he's still our starter through at least next season. 

None of that is statistical.

Edited 6 hours ago by Mr. Scot

[Mr. Scot]

5 hours ago, CRA said:

of the last 6 games, how many would you say featured good NFL QB play? 

Jets, Green Bay, New Orleans, Falcons, 49ers, Rams. 

How is he playing well, if he was not good in 4 of the last 6? 

It's the recurring trend of letting the last game when it goes okay have drastically too much weight. 

Packers, Rams, Jets, both Falcon games were all decent to good (one, argubly two great) including a bunch of fourth quarter comebacks. 

As far as last game bias, that goes both ways.

[Mr. Scot]

51 minutes ago, Car123 said:

I’ve never said stats don’t matter.

No, I did

[bandu]

Bryce Young is going to be a bust that I would not touch with a ten foot pole after this 3rd season is over 

Shedeur Sanders on the other hand is going to turn out to be a really good franchise Qb 

watch Carolina & Cleveland both figure out a way to screw this up in the end.Carolina will extend Bryce Young which of course will be a HUGE mistake & Cleveland will draft a first round Qb in the upcoming draft which will also be a HUGE mistake  ..just saying myCb 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by bandu

[kungfoodude]

5 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

U

Has a whole thread about why I don't go by stats but apparently it was deleted. Don't know why.

As to the "other guy" he only said he's watched all the games and you didn't believe him. You now state that you "took a look at this across a WIDE variety of overall metrics and statistical groups that should give an idea about overall play and some potential aggravating factors associated with their play".

That's a lot broader claim than he made. Should i believe you?

That might sound snarky, but that's pretty much how you dismissed his argument, so hey...

And yes, I've made counter arguments. You don't accept them as valid. I don't accept your stat based argument either, but I've made an effort to explain why beyond just saying "well you're wrong because...stats".

Bottom Line: You still believe Murray will be valued and starting somewhere next year. I have my doubts, but even if he does get another shot that doesn't guarantee he's gonna be any better. I'm comfortable waiting and seeing.

Will he be better than Bryce? Don't think so, but admittedly unless he's a Panther, won't really care either.

I definitely care about Bryce, but I'm not a whole lot more optimistic on that front than I am about Murray. 

You didn't make counter arguments, ad I have pointed out several times. You got your "feels" out but that isn't a compelling argument.

[kungfoodude]

5 hours ago, Car123 said:

Trevor Lawerence is not having a better year. Also, you got the wrong color for Lawerence’s int%. You also marked green for total TO/PG when it was tied.

Well, those stats certainly disagree. He is very much having a better year.

The "tie" is not actually a tie. The cells clip and round the decimals to one significant digit even if the input is more. 

 

[kungfoodude]

5 hours ago, Car123 said:

What’s fantastic about 57.6 comp pct, 11 td, 15 ints, 67.5 passer rating?

I see the issue, I am not counting his rookie season where he didn't actually play minus a few snaps of garbage time.

So by your math that would be his 4th year.

Edited 1 hour ago by kungfoodude

[Mr. Scot]

27 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

You didn't make counter arguments, ad I have pointed out several times. You got your "feels" out but that isn't a compelling argument.

Oh, I did, and they weren't based in emotions either.

Granted, characterizing them that way gives you an easy out to avoid responding to them. Similar tactic to dismissing the other guy's points with "nah, you didn't really watch the games" which saves you having to debate what he said.

Strikes me as a kinda lazy way to go, but hey both elements are still back there if you feel up to trying later.