Jenson's OTB: Panthers Source on Edwards, Clausen

[panfan32]

and anyone who disagrees is a hater

speculation supporting Cam = facts from good sources

speculation against Cam = rumors started by haters

OMG...... CAM NEWTON is another JaMarcus Russell with speed. I would not give him or any QB this draft a 1st round selection let alone a 2nd or 3rd.

[jarhead]

OTB w/Brett Jensen claims to have some insider news from a Panthers source. Take this for what it's worth, which may be NOTHING...

http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2011/03/02/panther-insider-news/

Think we can get Palmer for a pick swap and our fourth. Not sure if it's likely but they think it COULD happen.

Coaching staff is smarter, better prepared. The Panthers are much happier with these guys already.

Problem with Armanti Edwards is that he got ZERO help from coaching staff or anyone last year. He got no help and hung him out to dry because Fox did NOT want him. He is NOT scared. Just zero help. Armanti will HAVE to show improvement this year but he'll get help in that area. Was JR the reason Armanti was drafted? Source says no comment.

Both the Panthers and scouts from other teams also believe that Jimmy Clausen is better than all but 2 of the quarterbacks in this draft: Newton and Gabbert. Better than Locker, Mallet, Ponder, etc. They think that Clausen is the guy that can win and that he got very little help/training from the staff last year. He is in there every day trying to get better, studying the position, even now (when he's in Charlotte). Source says Clausen is one of the toughest players on the team and claims he didn't complain once. Says his arm is as strong as Hasselbeck/Brady's. Supposedly they firmly and completely believe they can win with Jimmy Clausen.

My take:

I've thought the Panthers felt this way all along and it's why I don't think they go quarterback.

Also, credit goes to drnll4 for pointing this out.

edit: added palmer part, what Mr. Scot pointed out.

I would like to see if all these scouts and other teams would put there money where there mouth is and trade us the pick where Mallet and others would go meaning a 2nd round pick

[Cyberjag]

So you think Clausen is better suited for an offense that attacks downfield rather than a WCO? Seriously?

Clausen pretty much admitted Weiss even told him they were going to ignore some of his mechanics b/c they were going to put an emphasis on getting the ball out quick.....therefore it wouldn't matter about his motion. Clausen was "pro ready"......he had been running a variation of the WCO. Weiss' scheme allowed him to get away w/ stuff and flaws.

Weiss and Davidson were not running the same offense. They asked two completely different things from QBs.

Coryell calls for him to sit in the pocket and make reads downfield (10-20 yards are key)......nothing about him in college, his coaches, and rookie year suggest he fits this offense or the one Fox ran. imo.

It sounds like you're saying that Charlie Weis abandoned the offense that he's run everywhere he's been, in college and pro, to run the WCO at Notre Dame for three years just because his QB couldn't run Erhardt-Perkins. Do I have that right?

I would like a link to those Clausen comments, BTW.

And why do you think that you're not supposed to get the ball out quick in Coryell? Are you one of those who believe that Coryell is all about throwing 50 yards on every other play?

FWIW, the football field is 53 yards wide. Coryell stretches the defense vertically, WCO stretches it horizontally. A five yard throw to the sideline will generally go 21 yards in the air, and it needs to be on a frozen rope.

[CRA]

It sounds like you're saying that Charlie Weis abandoned the offense that he's run everywhere he's been, in college and pro, to run the WCO at Notre Dame for three years just because his QB couldn't run Erhardt-Perkins. Do I have that right?

I would like a link to those Clausen comments, BTW.

And why do you think that you're not supposed to get the ball out quick in Coryell? Are you one of those who believe that Coryell is all about throwing 50 yards on every other play?

FWIW, the football field is 53 yards wide. Coryell stretches the defense vertically, WCO stretches it horizontally. A five yard throw to the sideline will generally go 21 yards in the air, and it needs to be on a frozen rope.

I will find the link...I think it is a video but it will be after lunch. Local beat writers asked him about his mechanics and he explanied why it wasn't issue for people prior.

you are saying Clausen didn't play in a variation of the WCO in college?

again, Chud's Coryell when working is about the 10-20 yard throws. It requires you to stay in the pocket. It requires you to be able to make all the throws from the pocket w/ not fleeing. Jimmy struggles w/ the entire field except the sidelines and dump offs.

and again, when I am talking about Chud's offense and 10-20 yard throws I am talking plays where a reciever first touches the ball at least 10 yards downfield. Those throws are why his offense worked in Cleveland.

[mav1234]

The Clausen release comments sound like they've come from an ESPN Insider article on his throwing motion (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/news/story?id=5064085, no insider at work, can't check). There is a little image segment that compared Clausen to Brees and Russell... Saying how Russell's was TERRIBLE, Brees's was perfect, and Clausen was on his way to it.

In it, Clausen says that Weiss always told him to worry primarily about getting the ball out fast and never worked with him on his throwing motion/release. I did not take from that what CRA did, though. I just took that to mean Weiss thought his throwing motion was fine and wanted him to worry primarily about making quick, accurate reads and getting the ball to his receivers.

[Cyberjag]

I will find the link...I think it is a video but it will be after lunch. I got a meeting to run to.

you are saying Clausen didn't play in a variation of the WCO in college?

again, Chud's Coryell when working is about the 10-20 yard throws. It requires you to stay in the pocket. It requires you to be able to make all the throws from the pocket w/ not fleeing. Jimmy struggles w/ the entire field except the sidelines and dump offs.

and again, when I am talking about Chud's offense and 10-20 yard throws I am talking plays where a reciever first touches the ball at least 10 yards downfield. Those throws are why his offense worked in Cleveland.

Jimmy struggles with the entire field? :D

He had a lot of dump-offs, and he had a lot of plays where he threw down field. Do you have some sort of distribution chart at the ready that shows him going to the sidelines all the time? And he can certainly make a 10-20 yard throw.

And Chud's offense only goes to receivers 40% of the time. How long is the ball in the air when he throws to backs or tight ends? :)

Seriously, Clausen's a better fit for this offense than he is a WCO. That's not to say he'll be wildly successful in either, but he's never been a WCO QB and that takes a lot of time to learn.

[KaseKlosed]

Clausen should switch positions, maybe WR or Special Teams, he didn't show any improvement or growth as the season progressed, if Cam Newton or A Edwards put up those numbers people would call them bust! Period,

[CRA]

Jimmy struggles with the entire field? :D

He had a lot of dump-offs, and he had a lot of plays where he threw down field. Do you have some sort of distribution chart at the ready that shows him going to the sidelines all the time? And he can certainly make a 10-20 yard throw.

And Chud's offense only goes to receivers 40% of the time. How long is the ball in the air when he throws to backs or tight ends? :)

Seriously, Clausen's a better fit for this offense than he is a WCO. That's not to say he'll be wildly successful in either, but he's never been a WCO QB and that takes a lot of time to learn.

299 pass attempts. 11 completions to the middle.

The bulk of Chud's offensive production (both yards and scores) in when successful in Clev came from after recieving options got the ball in there hands after they were already 10 yards or more downfield.

[Happy Panther]

Cluasen returning punts?

Interesting

[teeray]

Jimmy struggles with the entire field? :D

Not to butt into you guy's conversation.

But unless Jimmy changes his mechanics he is going to have a hard time using the middle of the field.

Brees is shorter but look at his release point. It is way over his head. Jimmy need to adapt a similar throwing motion or else he will be regulated to the sidelines on his throws.

[Cyberjag]

Not to butt into you guy's conversation.

But unless Jimmy changes his mechanics he is going to have a hard time using the middle of the field.

Brees is shorter but look at his release point. It is way over his head. Jimmy need to adapt a similar throwing motion or else he will be regulated to the sidelines on his throws.

Brees also takes a deeper drop, he's more accurate, and he's way the hell more experienced.

299 pass attempts. 11 completions to the middle.

The bulk of Chud's offensive production (both yards and scores) in when successful in Clev came from after recieving options got the ball in there hands after they were already 10 yards or more downfield.

All I can say is that the receivers, backs, and tight ends in Cleveland must be the worst YAC group in NFL history. In 2007 the Browns averaged 6.5 yards per attempt, and 12.7 yards per catch. In 2008 those numbers fell to 5.2 and 10.7.

Obviously there were severe accuracy issues, and the receivers consistently caught the ball and fell forward right then. Except there weren't and they didn't.

Here's something to actually chew on that's backed by real numbers, and I'm only going to look at Cleveland's GOOD season under Chud (helps your case). Cleveland in 2007 was third in the league in 20+ yard passing plays with 53. So they averaged 3.3 deep completions per game. Now, if they completed all those long balls, why do you suppose they didn't get better than 12th in passing? And why is it that their yards per attempt were only 6.5?

The answer, of course, is pure Coryell. They ran the ball a lot. They threw short to their backs and short to intermediate to their Tight Ends a ton. And they released their WRs on a lot of plays, because you always want someone deep. When Anderson caught the defense going man deep, he just heaved it downfield. This is exactly what Delhomme did with Smitty when Henning was the OC here. And that's exactly how that offense is supposed to operate.

I'll spare you from having to argue that Delhomme had great deep accuracy, the system doesn't require it. It just needs you to throw it deep a few times a game to keep the safeties back. The beauty of it is, you don't even need to connect! Just make the defense know that you'll do it. And that's a VERY coach-able action.

We're going to have a power running offense that takes chances downfield, but it will also use a lot of passing to backs. And it will use the Tight End across the middle more. Both of these suit Clausen's skill set just fine.

The point is not that he WILL succeed (although I believe he will). The point is that there's nothing in the Coryell offense that will be more difficult than what he had last year, whereas in the WCO there is.

[TheRealDeal]

But why take someone who's not very good short (unless it's backwards) and try and coach them up to do that and then try and get them to grow a pair instead of just taking someone that can make all the throws, has a pair, and just needs a little film work?

[Cyberjag]

But why take someone who's not very good short (unless it's backwards) and try and coach them up to do that and then try and get them to grow a pair instead of just taking someone that can make all the throws, has a pair, and just needs a little film work?

Well, in your world he's not very good short, medium, OR long. We get it.

And I would be happy with Newton or Gabbert. I would be happier still if they got a chance to adjust to the NFL speed and the pro set while Clausen was out there ringing in a mid 80s rating and winning some games. I don't really know about Gabbert, but I think there's no doubt that Newton has a higher potential ceiling than Clausen.

If that can happen, and Clausen plays well enough while the rookie is learning, then we've got serious trade bait. To me, that would be the ideal scenario.

[fjblair]

I had lost some respect for Fox last year. I'm steadily losing more the more I hear about last season.

+1.

I hope Armanti Edwards becomes a super star just so he can stick it up John Fox's stubborn a**.