Can someone shed some light on this idea that Newton is dumb?

[MaineManPanther]

LOL. The bigger point is why would someone even question whether a bright kid like that could do it. Find me a white QB with a similar academic and football resume that questioned their ability to call their own plays. Just one please. Again you are whiffing the larger point :nonod:

And honestly are you having a hard time finding people who have questioned Russell's intelligence??

Because being really intelligent doesn't automatically mean you possess the skills to call the right plays and handle the NFL.

I don't know much of Cambell's college career. But do you know for a fact if he had problems calling plays? Because if he did it would show to the point that it wasnt a rascist comment but one based on his history.

On top of that how do you distinguish the difference between a rascist comment and one that just is poorly researched and/or inaccurate?

[teeray]

Because being really intelligent doesn't automatically mean you possess the skills to call the right plays and handle the NFL.

I don't know much of Cambell's college career. But do you know for a fact if he had problems calling plays? Because if he did it would show to the point that it wasnt a rascist comment but one based on his history.

I don't disagree with the first paragraph.

But if anything he excelled at it in college. His last 4 years at Auburn he had 4 different offensive coordinators. He had to learn 4 different offenses and verbiage (although some of it overlapped I'm sure)

[KJDaniel31]

I am just having a hard time understanding your point in general.

Nah, you arent. You are much smarter than that.

This is what i have gathered:

So some people questioned all these black QBs intelligence

true

, but because these people were not other people they don't count.

True. The opinions of a stand up comic on a NFL QB prospect mean nothing to me, just like my opinion of surgery options for a knee injury should mean nothing to you.

As long as the people who question a black QB's intelligence doesn't work for ESPN, CBS, etc. then it doesn't really matter

True....who cares what a few random idiots say? Are you prepared to align yourself or defend every racist comment a black person said? Why dont those statements matter?

and therefore stereotyping doesn't exist.

False. Where did I say it doesnt exist? Haven't I said repeatedly that it does? Why resort to dishonesty? I haven't once misquoted you, however I'm beginning to see your tactics more clearly.

BUT if it does exist we should ignore it

Should? No....its simply the inevitable consequence of long term dishonesty, IE blaming race for every negative comment said about Cam.

because the little boy called wolf by playing the race card too much therefore people who play the race card are actually to blame

1. IYO, is the race card played here in response to criticism of Cam when racism is not a factor?

2. Whose fault is it when it is?

3. What would you have people do? Believe race is a factor when it isnt?

and not people who ignore it

I doubt this happens much...but it happens...its probably more an inability to recognize it since wolf is cried so often.

or think it doesn't exist. :confused:

You will have a hard time finding where I said this.

[teeray]

I am going to sum up my point of view and go to bed. I am not sure if racial biases account for some of the things said about Cam Newton or any other black QB.

I feel that black QBs have a higher threshold they have to pass to prove that they have a strong work ethic, are intelligent, and can lead than white QBs. Some of you guys disagree and that is fine.

But what I won't do is just bury my head in the sand and pretend that it has no place in the discussion. That it doesn't exist. I am not pretentious enough to believe I know that answer.

And I know some people get mad when the "race card" gets thrown out there. It is equally frustrating for some people to listen to white people lecture about how racism and racial bias no longer exists. If you are white and you think you understand what a black person goes through on a day to day basis in regards to racial profiling and stereotypes you are officially stupid. I hate to say stuff like that, but you can't know and you don't know.

I have said it before and I will say it again, 90% of this stuff is subconscious. I don't think people questioning Cam's intelligence are crazy racists. Anyone of any race can fall victim to racial bias. Doesn't mean they are inherently evil.

But if people are going to call a kid a thug, or dumb, or lazy, or disingenuous, etc. all things that have been said about Cam by people (not necessarily columnists but it isn't okay for anyone to say it) and when you look at the reasons why, they don't exist. So you try to make sense of it as best you can. And in a lot of cases it looks very much like racial profiling. That is all some people are trying to say.

And KJ if you want to explain to me why Cam has been called a thug, dumb, lazy, disingenuous, please do. His past has been deeply vetted and I just don't see it (nor does Hurney or Rivera) . I don't see why people call this kid these things when in the grand scheme of life he has done nothing wrong.

[Sandy Claws]

I have lately been hearing and reading mulitple comments(not on here) that attack Newton's inteligence and not just his football smarts either.

I have heard people call the kid stupid with things like "he probably couldn't count the money he got at Auburn" and other things. I know most of them are just sheer stupidity coming from divison rivals, read the comments on any NFCS blog post about Cam on espn and you'll see that.

What disturbs me is the ammount of these comments I'm hearing from Panther fans on the street.

Where are they getting this idea that Cam has no brain.

:cam:

u mad?

[MadHatter]

I see a lot slick racist comments and I know most of the people here are in NC somewhere so I just want them to PM me and point me in the direction of the people that are brave enough to say it in the real world. It'll help the future generation if we eliminate the source. There are some that are too far away so they feel extra safe. I know a lot of people that would love to meet these klansmen of the internet. No reason to call names. When you see me call someone out just look back in the thread you'll figure out why.

Hate to tell you there slick......idiot assholes like you do more to keep racism alive than anyone else on here.

You talk tough behind a computer screen....but I bet you are nothing but a pimply faced little punk trying to act all big.

[MadHatter]

What exactly is your agenda in continuing to promulgate this unfounded accusation as if it were a known fact?

Because in the many weeks I've been lurking here, you've bit hard onto this myth like a lunker on a spinner and you've swallowed that sucker all the way down to your gut. :rolleyes:

The OP asked why many people question his intellingence. I listed a few items that "may" be the reasons. I never said that I agreed with them nor did I say that the allegations were true.

To me, they are nothing but allegations. They may be true....and they may not.

Even if he did cheat on a test....or even if he did know that the laptop was stolen...they are not big deals to me. Every college student out there did dumb poo when they were in school.

His character, work ethic, etc... has never been challenged by me. Everything I have read proves that he is a good kid and a hard worker. All I care about is whether he is able to master the Carolina Panther offense.....and only time will tell there.

If he is willing to put in the work (which I said that every indication is that he will), he has the physical athleticism and attributes to be special. If he doesn't, he will go down as an epic bust the likes of Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell. My bet is somewhere in between.

I doubt he will EVER live up to the hype and expectations that have been placed on him by some of the people here.....Hell, Superman could not even lives up to those expectations. I think he WILL put in the work and time....and I think he will be a very good QB.

[Mr. Scot]

Let's retrace a little...

In other words every black QB drafted in the first round the last 10 or 11 years with the exception of Byron Leftwich (that I can remember) at some point had people questioning their intelligence outright or with the phraseology of "there ability to learn a pro offense" or "ability to read NFL defenses" was at some point in the draft process one of the major questions of all these QB on some people's scouting reports. Seems like an abnormally high number of black QBs that got their intelligence questioned compared to white first round QBs no? That is 10 of the last 11 QBs that were black and highly rated that this was a "concern" for.

To which I responded...

Every quarterback - black or white - that comes out of a non-traditional system is going to have those questions asked, including guys like Ben Roethlisberger and Blaine Gabbert. Guys like Chase Daniel and Graham Harrell wound up passed over as much for those concerns as anything else.

And you said...

Why didn't Bradford, Alex Smith, Rex Grossman, Ben Roethlisberger, Jay Cutler, Colt McCoy etc. not face similar questions about their intelligence??

At which point I showed you that they had. To which you replied...

Sweet. None of those questioned their intelligence!!! Thanks Scot. I was looking for examples. Saying a guy needs to be retrained or take snaps under center =/= to questioning a guy's intelligence.

So in your first response, questioning the ability to make the transition to a pro style offense equals questioning their intelligence. I show you examples of exactly that - guys being knocked for playing in simplified offenses, not having to make NFL reads, not being NFL ready and not having had to learn the position - and then you say questioning the ability to make the transition doesn't equal questioning their intelligence.

Well, does it or doesn't it?

If it does, then you have several examples of white QBs facing the same questions, and there are plenty more (among them, Andy Dalton, Pat Devlin and even Jake Locker from this year) so your point that only black QBs face these questions is invalid.

If it doesn't, then you can't use these questions as an example of people questioning Newton's intelligence.

Either way, you're losing here.

I'd add that I gave you examples from Pro Football Weekly and you responded with Bleacher Report? Come on... :nonod:

[Mr. Scot]

I can't believe you guys still argue this. There are racist people who question Cam because he's black. There are also people who question his because he has made dumb decisions. You can't prove which reason applies to which person so why argue about it

Because the accusation of racism is far easier to do than actually trying to argue against someone's point.

To be perfectly frank, going to the race card when someone has given no evidence of racist thinking is intellectually lazy, and it serves as evidence that either your argument is weak or you don't have what it takes to keep up in the debate without getting personal.

And giving the "well, maybe it's subtle or subconscious" spin on it is just trying to still play the race card but absolve yourself from blame for playing it.

There's no quicker way to lose credibility than to resort to tactics like that.

[mav1234]

You only take the wonderlic once I believe at the combine where he score a 28. There was a rumor that he took another one before the combine and got a 14. But it is just that, a rumor.

no you often take it more than once, either with the service you are working with pre-draft, or I've heard occasionally at the Senior Bowl and Pro Days. MANY players take it more than once. anyways, it doesn't matter.

McNabb is a decent example of someone whose intelligence gets questioned fairly frequently, heh.

If you go around looking at comments to news stories you will come across a disturbing amount of racial garbage, but I think it is too easy to dismiss all concerns people have about Cam as racially motivated. The vast majority of them are legitimate, and many white prospects are facing similar questions.

[Mr. Scot]

Black QB's are held to a higher standard than white QB's. To me, this is obvious to anyone that can evaluate information with an open mind. People have a hard time drawing a mental picture of the great black QB, just because there have been relatively few of them. Over time, this will change, and the stereotype will die. But to deny this stereotype exists is naive.

Arguing the details of this question though, is a waste of time. Each side can find evidence supporting their position. It's the offseason, so I guess it fills the time, but it won't likely change anyone's opinion.

I've shown you specific examples of white quarterbacks facing questions about their ability to make the transitions to the pros, same as black players have.

Can you show me actual examples of how black quarterbacks are universally held to "a higher standard" or is your evidence that "they just are"?

What you're completely missing here is that the evaluations of all these quarterbacks are done by individuals. There's no "group think" in existence here, and yet you're talking as if some universal double standard exists while suggesting that people who don't believe in this sort of "hive mind" are being naive.

Seriously? :nonod:

Could an individual hold a double standard like this? Sure they can.

Does every individual think this way, or even a majority of them? Please :frown2:

The whole racism defense has pretty much come down to the same argument every single time. "I've seen racist people, therefore people everywhere must either be racist themselves or influenced by racism." The whole notion is just stupid, and as I've said above, the reason people bring it up here is because it's easier to go that route and question someone's character and motivation than it is to actually debate facts.

I have no respect for this kind of personal attack, especially when I see it used against people who've never given me any reason to think there's a single racist thought in their mind.

[teeray]

Let's retrace a little...

To which I responded...

And you said...

At which point I showed you that they had. To which you replied...

So in your first response, questioning the ability to make the transition to a pro style offense equals questioning their intelligence. I show you examples of exactly that - guys being knocked for playing in simplified offenses, not having to make NFL reads, not being NFL ready and not having had to learn the position - and then you say questioning the ability to make the transition doesn't equal questioning their intelligence.

Well, does it or doesn't it?

If it does, then you have several examples of white QBs facing the same questions, and there are plenty more (among them, Andy Dalton, Pat Devlin and even Jake Locker from this year) so your point that only black QBs face these questions is invalid.

If it doesn't, then you can't use these questions as an example of people questioning Newton's intelligence.

Either way, you're losing here.

I'd add that I gave you examples from Pro Football Weekly and you responded with Bleacher Report? Come on... :nonod:

Know how I know you don't read posts well.

I have never ever ever ever said that "only black QBs face these questions." :nonod:

And I appreciate you pointing out the bleacher report articles (out of the several I posted. I guess these two are the only ones you read). It was an example of the impression that those QBs are dumb. The vibe I am getting from you and KJ is that just because someone on bleacher report talks about the perception that some QBs are not intelligent they simply don't count. The bleacher report articles are people responded to or wrote about the perception of these QBs. Perhaps you guys just don't have the ability to understand that these two were talking about a pre-existing perception and not making the observation itself.

I also am beginning to feel that maybe you have the same problem the black QBs have. You simply don't have the ability to understand the difference between someone saying you have to re-learn or retrain and questioning whether you have the ability to learn. It isn't your fault you can't comprehend it. You don't have that level of intellectualism.

If you think it is the same just continue through your blissful life of no racial bias and enjoy it. It is just another luxury us white people have over other races. We can just think to ourselves "Since I don't think that way it clearly doesn't exist." Meanwhile guys running pro-systems and have a 3.0 gpa and have the same wonderlic score as Peyton Manning have their ability to even call plays questioned (BTW in the fun you guys had in regards to the bleacher report articles no one has been able to produce a white QB with a similar resume having his ability to even call plays questioned) Jimmy Clausen who had less football experience, a losing record, and or lower wonderlic score was roundly praised for his tremendous football IQ.

Ignorance is bliss. But the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he doesn't exist.

[Icege]

Trying to use a Bleacher Report article to support a football argument is like playing the race card to win one

[teeray]

no you often take it more than once, either with the service you are working with pre-draft, or I've heard occasionally at the Senior Bowl and Pro Days. MANY players take it more than once. anyways, it doesn't matter.

McNabb is a decent example of someone whose intelligence gets questioned fairly frequently, heh.

If you go around looking at comments to news stories you will come across a disturbing amount of racial garbage, but I think it is too easy to dismiss all concerns people have about Cam as racially motivated. The vast majority of them are legitimate, and many white prospects are facing similar questions.

I don't disagree MAV. I just get irritated by people who just think it is blasphemy that anyone question whether racial bias plays a role in the perception of black QBs.

Nearly every black QB we have discussed I have personally heard from some people say "He is too dumb to play QB". Not on TV, radio, or print but in everyday life.

Some people seem to believe that if Narwocki didn't say it than those perceptions don't exist.