The Forgotten Man

[Mr. Scot]

For clarity's sake, I define a "franchise QB" as one who is the centerpiece of the offense. Examples would be guys like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Carson Palmer.

The Panthers don't subscribe to the franchise QB model because they want to be a run-first, "grind it out" team, one in which the QB need only be good, not great.

And I'm perfectly comfortable with that philosophy.

[mantal]

For clarity's sake, I define a "franchise QB" as one who is the centerpiece of the offense. Examples would be guys like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Carson Palmer.

The Panthers don't subscribe to the franchise QB model because they want to be a run-first, "grind it out" team, one in which the QB need only be good, not great.

And I'm perfectly comfortable with that philosophy.

Well put...

[Fox007]

No...it has nothing to do with pooling all your money towards offense or only concentrating on that.

Ben is a franchise QB, yes he has a huge salary, but look at the defense.........

You think these teams like that don't know what they are doing?

If they are smart enough to have a good team/defense like that, yet still think its a good idea to pay big bucks for a QB.............and they have 6 trophies........

I think they are onto something.

[Mr. Scot]

Well put...

And yes, those "franchise QBs" generally are guys that have been taken with a very high draft pick (Brady being the obvious exception).

[Fox007]

So I gotta go all the way back to prove you wrong? Not worth the effort, you win...

You can't prove me wrong unless your definition of franchise QB is totally skewed and out of wack.

It started in SB 1 with Bart Starr........and look at the list of SB winners.......like I said few(very few) of those teams have won it doing it the way we are trying to do it.

You can be a low pick and develop into a Franchise QB, like Brady, and that comes with the popularity and success.(over the hype and expectations of a early pick)

[VA Panther Fan]

No...it has nothing to do with pooling all your money towards offense or only concentrating on that.

Ben is a franchise QB, yes he has a huge salary, but look at the defense.........

You think these teams like that don't know what they are doing?

If they are smart enough to have a good team/defense like that, yet still think its a good idea to pay big bucks for a QB.............and they have 6 trophies........

I think they are onto something.

I'm sure you are aware that the six trophies didn't all happen with Big Ben under center.

And, if you try to pair "franchise QB" with Terry Bradshaw, the internet will laugh at you.

Pittsburgh wins because they stay true to their philosophy. Run, run, run and play hellacious defense.

[Jackofalltrades]

Agree or not, it's a great read.

[Fireball77]

No...it has nothing to do with pooling all your money towards offense or only concentrating on that.

Ben is a franchise QB, yes he has a huge salary, but look at the defense.........

You think these teams like that don't know what they are doing?

If they are smart enough to have a good team/defense like that, yet still think its a good idea to pay big bucks for a QB.............and they have 6 trophies........

I think they are onto something.

Yes I agree having a great defense/good TEAM THEN drafting a guy #1 is far smarter than doing it the other way if that's what you were saying.

But to call BR and PM both franchise guys..I don't agree with that definition if only because look at their performance and skill and tell me honestly, does BR deserve the same or bigger contract for his 3 really efficient/ good years and his two below average to average years as Manning does for his rookie learning curve then pretty consistently top performances every year? I would pay Manning more than BR any day of the week.

[CatMan72]

There's good reason McCown is forgotten... he's had a shot at being a full-time starter on more than one team and he's demonstrated that he's not starting NFL QB material.

Jake's potential was unknown when he arrived, McCown's potential is well-known. He was brought in as a veteran stop-gap after the chaos the Panthers had at QB the year Delhomme was hurt. I hope the Panthers have a much better "plan B" at QB than McCown.

[Mr. Scot]

No...it has nothing to do with pooling all your money towards offense or only concentrating on that.

Ben is a franchise QB, yes he has a huge salary, but look at the defense.........

You think these teams like that don't know what they are doing?

If they are smart enough to have a good team/defense like that, yet still think its a good idea to pay big bucks for a QB.............and they have 6 trophies........

I think they are onto something.

Ben played like crap in his first Super Bowl. The defense (some would say the refs) won that one for the Steelers. He was better in his second one, but still the margin of victory was owed as much to James Harrison as anyone. And on the other side, Kurt Warner, a former Super Bowl MVP and a Delhomme type castoff.

I'd add that pointing to the Steelers in general, but especially to their earlier four trophies as a sign that the franchise QB model works demonstrates a significant lack of knowledge about football history.

The 70s Steelers were the absolute model of a run-first, rely on the defense type of team. And that QB they had wasn't exactly the best of his day. He was more of a gunslinger type who made his living throwing bombs to a couple of great receivers. (sound familiar?)

The team that followed more closely to the model of the "centerpiece QB" was the Cowboys, the ones who were continually losing Super Bowls to the Steelers.

[CatMan72]

Agree or not, it's a great read.

Agreed, was a great read but I doubt the Panthers consider McCown anything more than a veteran stop-gap QB if Jake goes down again.

[methodtoll]

The point that I tend to argue the most when it comes to this QB discussion is that the fact that people still CLAIM that Fox and Hurney have come out and stated that they wouldn't draft a QB in the first because it will take them too long to develop.. Yet, I haven't seen anyone directly quote Fox or Hurney on it. How about finding me proof and then I will believe you.

Furthermore, I tend to argue that junction anyways. Not every first round QB is a bust , you know? Look at last year, for a instance... The Falcons gambled on paying Matt Ryan so much money when they didn't even know what they were getting and yet, Ryan turned out to be good. Ravens took a gamble on what was suppose to be a 2nd round pick in Joe Flacco.

My point being is,if the talent is there, they wouldn't pass on it.

Now, I am not justifying that we should waste if a 1st round pick on a QB but this whole "Fox won't draft a QB in the 1st" to me is just flawed.

[Fox007]

I'm sure you are aware that the six trophies didn't all happen with Big Ben under center.

And, if you try to pair "franchise QB" with Terry Bradshaw, the internet will laugh at you.

Pittsburgh wins because they stay true to their philosophy. Run, run, run and play hellacious defense.

Yet he was taken 1st overall, by a very successful team....I guess that means nothing.

So what you're really trying to say is, the Panthers will never be in position to draft or get a highly rated QB because their defense will never be that good?(mainly because of coaching i agree)

For a team that does like to run, run, run, and play hellacious defense, they sure have a knack for drafting first round QB's.(do your history)

I guess that IS a coincidence

[CatMan72]

Nobody ever had more success with re-tread QB's than the Redskins under Joe Gibbs. After Theisman, Gibbs managed to win two SB's with veteran journeyman QB's, one of which was the SB MVP.