New Head Coach...

[BBQ&Beer]

What pisses me off, is I'm being realistic, and post facts all day long, and most of you hate me mostly with personal attacks while ignoring actual facts and continuing to post in denial.

It's ridiculous.

And what really pisses me off is how everyone continues to blame the entire team except Cam Newton and keeps saying we're a good offense, when we are absolutely terrible.

We just get a lot of yards, but it's awful.

... Baaw?

[Captain Obvious]

i miss the chewing gum

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

Oh and get used to 'find a new team! DERP!' if you aren't ready to sit on your hands and get used to losing season after losing season.

That's just the fanbase here.

I don't think it's really an insult. I look at it as more of a friendly suggestion that if you can't wait for a rookie head coach and a very young team to develop and start winning, then maybe a different team that's already paid their dues and experienced the ups and downs of rebuilding like the Saints or Packers would be more your speed :)

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

What pisses me off, is I'm being realistic, and post facts all day long, and most of you hate me mostly with personal attacks while ignoring actual facts and continuing to post in denial.

It's ridiculous.

And what really pisses me off is how everyone continues to blame the entire team except Cam Newton and keeps saying we're a good offense, when we are absolutely terrible.

We just get a lot of yards, but it's awful.

I've literally never seen you concede a single point to anyone on any of your six hundred accounts. No matter what points are made against your stance, all I've ever seen you do is incoherently blather on until the other poster just gives up.

I think that's why people jump to personal insults. Asswipe.

[Hotsauce]

[panthers55]

Actually I do it all the time when someone proves me wrong with facts. The reason you don't notice it is precisely because I concede my points very quickly when presented with evidence. I don't argue like an idiot against logic backed up by evidence.

The other reason you rarely see me concede is because I tend to be impartial and you're typically on the other side of a losing argument, and I don't concede points when I know I'm right and have the evidence to back it up. And more often than not, I tend to be right because I don't speak out of my ass. I look up facts before I post. I'm not as opinionated as some think. I'm far more factual. So that happens. Fact-based posters don't concede points when countered with popular opinion. You need facts. Not pie to make me concede. I don't give a poo about pie or popularity.

Some things are a matter of opinion: I like Cam Newton. I think Cam Newton's going to be awesome. I have a great feeling about Cam Newton.

Other things are just facts: Steve Smith is the reason Cam Newton has a lot of yards. The Carolina Panthers have an inefficient offense. Offenses ranked best in scoring efficiency become winning football teams. We have one of the worst offenses in the league. Yards alone don't matter, never will and never did. Turning yards into points is what makes a top offense. The ones who can score the most points, while putting up the least amount of yards per point, are not just the most efficient, but are also the best and top offenses in the league.

Those aren't opinions. Those are facts or football truths. And you argue against them. So you end up being wrong a lot.

Actually almost everything you said is an opinion not a fact. For example if you say that Steve Smith has 951 receiving yards through 9 games this year, that is factual. If you say that Cam Newton has thrown for 2605 yards that is a fact. But saying that Steve Smith is the reason that Cam Newton has a lot of yards is an opinion not a fact. A fact assumes that there is only one way to view the data and that is rarely the case. You make your analysis of the numbers which is certainly your right, but that is your interpretation not a fact. All the rest is the same. Your opinion is not universally held which is why it is also not a football truth. The problem here is that obviously you don't know the difference between the fact itself versus the interpretation of the fact which is subjective. Obviously that reflects flawed logic and attributions.

Sorry but if you want to be seen as credible you have to know the difference between fact and opinion.

[mav1234]

PFFL, the problem many of us have with the "facts" you present is that typically you will latch on to very, very specific stats while ignoring nearly everything else. For instance, YPP to show we have an awful offense, or fumble recoveries to show we have a good (or even not terrible) defense when there are multiple measures that completely disagree with those assertions or elements of the statistics you use that would actually argue against your points. While you can often get "facts" out of dicing apart statistics well enough, when you have to interpret facts they really lose a lot of what made them "facts" in the first place and become as much opinion as anything.

[Dpantherman]

I gave him swag 1) because I don't neg. swag, its wack ....2) because he 'got' me. Hook, line, sinker.

I fed the troll. Over it now.

[panthers55]

Yes it is a fact and not an interpretations because logic dictates there aren't two ways to view this one. .

I didn't need to read past this. The rest of your post is just more opinion and justification. If you use facts to make an observation and form an opinion, the opinion is still subjective regardless of how many facts you used to derive the opinion.

You could state that your interpretation is correct because you have facts to support it. You could even go to the length of suggesting that you have a hypothesis or even a theory based on the facts as you presented them.

But you again erroneously state your conclusion as a fact which it isn't. Just like if Smith has a career high in yards, YPA you could make a case Cam made Smith. It still would be an opinion albeit an informed one, but not a fact.

And spare me the back and forth argument as I really won't change my mind given I know the difference.

[panthers55]

PFFL, the problem many of us have with the "facts" you present is that typically you will latch on to very, very specific stats while ignoring nearly everything else. For instance, YPP to show we have an awful offense, or fumble recoveries to show we have a good (or even not terrible) defense when there are multiple measures that completely disagree with those assertions or elements of the statistics you use that would actually argue against your points. While you can often get "facts" out of dicing apart statistics well enough, when you have to interpret facts they really lose a lot of what made them "facts" in the first place and become as much opinion as anything.

Don't feed the troll. He and his alts have gone on ad nauseum about YPP and have yet to convince anyone he is correct. PFFL has an agenda and will drone on and on regardless. You hit the nail on the head which is that he will go down a bunny trail to try and prove a point that the rest of us know inherently to be trivial and largely meaningless.

Our offense is young and inexperienced at key positions and is only going to get better with time. Who cares if it is inefficient by his definition. I know that no matter how bad it is, compared to last year it is light year's ahead and we found our franchise quarterback for the next decade. Smitty is again relevant and we actually know that a tight end can catch a ball. Once Chud figures out how to use the running game we will be hitting on all cylinders. And they are all my opinions, LOL.

The best thing is to let him win his meaningless battles and not respond. Or if you respond, don't respond to the minutia or bunny trail but widen the context until it is clear how irrelevant his post is in the larger scheme.

[koolkatluke]

Dude what you just said, is basically tell me in your opinion we have a winning record. Just cause you don't understand the logic of the numbers and you STOP right there....it doesn't mean it's an opinion.

Sorry but it is. It's a fact. YPA doesn't though. This is yet looking at just ONE statistic and in this case it belongs to Smith. And you don't just compare them directly.

That's the thing. You skipped right over the part that Cam's ypa is 5.99 without Smith. So that's a fact. Not an opinion. His ypa to all of his other receivers combined is 6. But Smith manages 18.5 yards per catch.

It's not an opinion that 18.5 yards per catch > 8 Yards per attempt.

It's not an opinion that 18.0 yards per catch > 6 yards per attempt.

These are mathematical facts. But yes I see plenty of people believe that is a matter of opinion. And it's quite funny. That tells me Smith is a much better receiver than anyone on the team, not that Cam Newton's passes to Smith are better than my other receivers. Which is what you and a lot of other people are implying. That's false logic. So it can't = a fact. It's wrong.

In addition, yards after catch, have more to do with the receiver. Not the QB. Especially not a rookie QB, who has yet to get timing right so he hits the receiver in stride.

A poor overthrown pass, where the receiver makes an incredible effort to catch it, is not a result of a good job by the quarterback. It's a good job by the receiver. That's a fact too.

So yeah when you do what you do and pick one stat and try to correlate it to Cam in the view you like best....that's an opinion, a skewed fact, or "fan football talk". When you use that stat to compare it accurately and the correct way with your quarterback's corresponding stat...it reveals the above.

Bunny trail alert!!!!

[panthers55]

Bunny trail alert!!!!

Glad to see his basic troll tactics are apparent to most everyone.

[PantherProwler]

Don't feed the troll. He and his alts have gone on ad nauseum about YPP and have yet to convince anyone he is correct. PFFL has an agenda and will drone on and on regardless. You hit the nail on the head which is that he will go down a bunny trail to try and prove a point that the rest of us know inherently to be trivial and largely meaningless.

Our offense is young and inexperienced at key positions and is only going to get better with time. Who cares if it is inefficient by his definition. I know that no matter how bad it is, compared to last year it is light year's ahead and we found our franchise quarterback for the next decade. Smitty is again relevant and we actually know that a tight end can catch a ball. Once Chud figures out how to use the running game we will be hitting on all cylinders. And they are all my opinions, LOL.

The best thing is to let him win his meaningless battles and not respond. Or if you respond, don't respond to the minutia or bunny trail but widen the context until it is clear how irrelevant his post is in the larger scheme.

It's not my definition you dumbass. It's people who don't use the wrong stats to talk about "top offenses" That's what the hell everyone looks at to define a top 10 offense. Unlike a bunch of bricks like you.

30-3 says it's pretty damn relevant.

So is 2-7.

So is the fact all of these top offenses:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point

Are the same as these:

See this? These are call league standings of winning teams: http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/group/1

And it's not just cause Cam Newton is here. It's always been like this. It was like this when Fox was here. It was like this 30 years ago. 100 years ago. And it will be the same poo next year. It's how you rank offenses.

So if you wanna have a winning record and make the playoffs you need at least a top 15 team in YPP. And it doesn't come from me. It comes from people who actually know how to use football stats, what the hell they mean and what the hell they're talking about. So as far as I'm concerned you're the damn troll. And an ignorant one at that. Forever stuck in ignorance and football stupidity. So if I'm a troll I'm trolling your ignorance and I'm glad to do it. You should thank me.

[koolkatluke]

It's not my definition you dumbass. It's people who don't use the wrong stats to talk about "top offenses" That's what the hell everyone looks at to define a top 10 offense. Unlike a bunch of bricks like you.

30-3 says it's pretty damn relevant.

So is 2-7.

So is the fact all of these top offenses:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point

Are the same as these:

See this? These are call league standings of winning teams: http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/group/1

And it's not just cause Cam Newton is here. It's always been like this. It was like this when Fox was here. It was like this 30 years ago. 100 years ago. And it will be the same poo next year. It's how you rank offenses.

So if you wanna have a winning record and make the playoffs you need a top 15 team in YPP. And it doesn't come from me. It comes from people who actually know how to use football stats, what the hell they mean and what the hell they're talking about. So as far as I'm concerned you're the damn troll. And an ignorant one at that. Forever stuck in ignorance and football stupidity. So if I'm a troll I'm trolling your ignorance and I'm glad to do it. You should thank me.

Bunny trail alert !!!!