Williams flat out doesn't fit

[CRA]

God forbid Cam goes down and misses any time. Does Deangelo still not fit?

Chud wouldnt run a Newton version of his offenses at that point....so he would fit better. He doesn't fit the Newton version of Chud's O.

And before someone goes there.,,.that doesn't mean Williams can't make plays in it. Olsen made plays with Mike Martz. Doesn't mean they fit well.

[Panthro]

It's lazy math to take a 12 yard average from 1 game and combine it with a bunch of 2 yard averages and claim he's an awesome RB

[MadHatter]

Lack if running game was entirely on the OL.

They got flat out abused Sunday.

[CRA]

Lack if running game was entirely on the OL.

They got flat out abused Sunday.

OL play was entirely on the OC. He got them abused. OC made Williams a non factor. OC made Tolbert a non factor.

You flat out cant ask the OL to do what Chud asked.....nor can he ask Williams to be what he isn't. Cam and Newton can play in just about any scenario but he did essentially the reverse of that.

[thefuzz]

The typical throw everything in there but the kitchen sink type Huddle post.

Too much garbage to respond to everything but lets look at the money we wasted with Williams which we could have spent on someone else argument.

What part of we philosophically are going to build through the draft and not spend big on FA don't you get. We are 8 million under the cap and have enough to secure whatever linemen or cornerback we want to get at this point. You can argue we wasted money on Williams if you want because that is an opinion which you are surely entitled to, but the whole we gave him so much money we can't afford anyone else is just not backed by the facts. We have money to spend and didn't spend it because it didn't fit the mindset of the front office which includes Richardson as well.

Bolded does not matter. They are on other teams now.

When we overpaid Williams we had Stew for another two years, and were in no way, shape, or form in need of another RB. However, we sure did need a DT, CB, and OL. None of which we were able to go after because of overpaying both Johnson (OK with) and Williams (absolutely not OK with).

There are no other GM's spending the kind of cash that Hurney does on the RB position. This cannot be argued.

[MadHatter]

OL play was entirely on the OC. He got them abused. OC made Williams a non factor. OC made Tolbert a non factor.

You flat out cant ask the OL to do what Chud asked.....nor can he ask Williams to be what he isn't. Cam and Newton can play in just about any scenario but he did essentially the reverse of that.

Not sure I fully agree. Their run blocking and pass blocking were both atrocious,

Not sure how you out all if that on the OC.

How do you see this being the OC's fault? I am missing something and am very interested on your take on this.

[CRA]

The typical throw everything in there but the kitchen sink type Huddle post.

Too much garbage to respond to everything but lets look at the money we wasted with Williams which we could have spent on someone else argument.

What part of we philosophically are going to build through the draft and not spend big on FA don't you get. We are 8 million under the cap and have enough to secure whatever linemen or cornerback we want to get at this point. You can argue we wasted money on Williams if you want because that is an opinion which you are surely entitled to, but the whole we gave him so much money we can't afford anyone else is just not backed by the facts. We have money to spend and didn't spend it because it didn't fit the mindset of the front office which includes Richardson as well.

And this team has horrible depth all over the roster.....

You seem to only want to point out we wouldn't of brought in a big name FA (which is true).....ignore we could of made more moves like bringing in guys like Edwards to aid weak areas at key spots and build competition where we have weak starters.

[CRA]

Not sure I fully agree. Their run blocking and pass blocking were both atrocious,

Not sure how you out all if that on the OC.

How do you see this being the OC's fault? I am missing something and am very interested on your take on this.

How many snaps was the OL lined up and asked to legitmately run block for a RB? 2?

How is this the OC's fault? He didn't run Williams. Those two read zones aren't examples of running a RB like Deangelo.....

Cam attempted a larger % of deep balls than ANY QB in the NFL last year. He hung the OL out to dry. He went to 3 WR sets almost the entire game which are more like 4 WR sets bc of Olsen, ran deep routes, and asked a run blocking OL to hold up against a D pass rushing every down.

Chud is the one who could of changed the pressure Tampa was giving us....he just played into it the entire game. Chud just asked Newton to be the offense.....and he did that often last year. OL and Williams can't just be asked to do anything and if they fail....it makes it their fault.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

No, every read option went for a positive gain except for the ones Williams ran....he wasn't running them up the gut. It was just a clusterphuck. But again, that is more Chud than Williams

if a reciever can figure out to run the play downhill to be productive, why can't the rb?

if the read option is a staple of the offense, why has said rb not learned to execute after 1 full season and 1.5 offseasons?

[CRA]

if a reciever can figure out to run the play downhill to be productive, why can't the rb?

if the read option is a staple of the offense, why has said rb not learned to execute after 1 full season and 1.5 offseasons?

That WR was Pilares and he was RB at Hawaii and came from an offense that ran out of those spread passing formations. He ran his up the gut for 5.

Stewart ran the zone reads last year. Not Williams. It doesn't play to what Williams does....no point in him learning it last year. We just paid Stewart a poo to to be that RB. You don't ask Tom Brady to run the read option....not bc he is talented but bc it doesn't play into his strengths.

But it may not have Williams' fault....maybe Chud told him to take them outside since that is what Williams does well. Don't forget Chud isn't a spread option coach....Cam asked for it and Cam often coached guys last year in it.

[panthers55]

It doesn't matter because he poo the bed in the first game. If those two "homeruns" were the only ones he had in a season then yes he would be a liability.

Now you are looking at individual games and not the whole season. Cool beans. Let's look at games/

2011

Game 1 - 2.5 yards per carry

2.6

1.8

8.2

12.8 yards

3.7

3.5

3.7

4.4

7.3

4.6

2.6

12.4

4.1

9.4

7.6

That's consistently inconsistent.

Also in 2011 in games he carried the ball more than 10 times he averaged 4.2 yards per carry.

Also also in 2011 he averaged less than 3 yards per carry 4 times (something MJD didn't do once) and less than 4 yards per carry 7 times (MJD did it 3 times)

All the glory but none of the blame.

Good job changing the argument when you had a untenable position and couldn't even get the stats right. But I applaud that you might have a defensible position on this one. Was Williams inconsistent last year (which is clearly not close to be overpaid, not worth it or a bad back)?? The answer is yes he was. The real question is why and whether this was a product of him or the offense.

And actually the answer was both. The offense took time to develop and time for Chud to figure out how to use him. MJD was in an offense he was in for years and WiIliams was in a brand new one. How many times did he run for under 4 yards a carry in the last 8 games?? That would be 1. How many times did MD run for less than 4 ypc in the last 8 games? That would also be 1. Amazing what selective stats can do. But with context it is easy to see that Williams wasn't the same back in the second half of the year compared to the first.

It's lazy math to take a 12 yard average from 1 game and combine it with a bunch of 2 yard averages and claim he's an awesome RB

What is lazy is just looking at yards per play from game to game and weighing them all the same regardless of whether he ran 1 time or 50. Statistically lazy and without context. Plus there are plenty of other quality stats which you ignored.

[panthers55]

Bolded does not matter. They are on other teams now.

When we overpaid Williams we had Stew for another two years, and were in no way, shape, or form in need of another RB. However, we sure did need a DT, CB, and OL. None of which we were able to go after because of overpaying both Johnson (OK with) and Williams (absolutely not OK with).

There are no other GM's spending the kind of cash that Hurney does on the RB position. This cannot be argued.

'Actually from everything I read when we signed Williams we tried to sign Stewart as well and he refused. So we didn't know we would have him beyond 2012, had an unproven offense from a OC that never showed he could run a spread offense and lots of question marks. Still the money we have spent on Williams and Stewart over the past several years is less than we spent on a player like Gross, or Kalil. It did not break the bank or keep us from signing other players. It is our philosophy not to spend big in free agency but pay our own the big bucks.

As for other GMs spending what we do on the RB position, who else runs our same offense?? We don't spend what GB spends on the receiver spot. Why not? We don't run a WCO.

[panthers55]

And this team has horrible depth all over the roster.....

You seem to only want to point out we wouldn't of brought in a big name FA (which is true).....ignore we could of made more moves like bringing in guys like Edwards to aid weak areas at key spots and build competition where we have weak starters.

Through free agency and the draft we have 5 new starters and major contributors like Adams Medlock, and Alexander among others. When you add that to the guys coming back from injury, that is 8 starters we didn't have last year. That is also 8 starters from last year who offer great depth since they have starting experience.

?????????

[CRA]

'Actually from everything I read when we signed Williams we tried to sign Stewart as well and he refused. So we didn't know we would have him beyond 2012, had an unproven offense from a OC that never showed he could run a spread offense and lots of question marks. Still the money we have spent on Williams and Stewart over the past several years is less than we spent on a player like Gross, or Kalil. It did not break the bank or keep us from signing other players. It is our philosophy not to spend big in free agency but pay our own the big bucks.

As for other GMs spending what we do on the RB position, who else runs our same offense?? We don't spend what GB spends on the receiver spot. Why not? We don't run a WCO.

Well the Redskins beat the Saints*** running basically the same thing we did last year....they have a fraction of what we have invested in RBs

GB only has 2nd rounders at WR....what we have done at RB has no comparison. Those 2nd rounders can also be on the field together....and it doesn't have to be a gimmick play.