Overlooked stat for Cam

[tiger7_88]

What a.... ummm... errrr... *cough*... "lovely" couple?

[ReturnOfPFFL]

See now that PFFL has been proven wrong on the statistics that he first brought up, now he argues that they don't matter.

It's really simple PFFL, if someone has a higher AYPC, especially with fewer attempts, it means that he's throwing the ball further down the field on average.

There's nothing hard about that.

I never argued air yards per catch nor made any claims on who throws more deep balls. That's something you brought up and tried to draw a retarded conclusion which is laughable. And here's why that's a retarded argument. It's exaggerated to keep it simple for you:

QB 1 throws 30 passes for 2 yards and 10 passes for 40 yards,. Total aypc = 11.5 aypc

QB 2 throws 10 passes for 10 yards and 3 passees for 40 yards. Total aypcs 16.5 aypc

Who has the higher aypc? QB2.

Who actually threw more deep balls? Qb1 who threw 10.

The reason you "think" you proved my stats wrong, is cause you're a dumbass. It's an average. You're drawing conclusion from something you can't.

I've posted stats everyone knows like passer rating, completion percentage, touchdowns, yards after catch, targets, spreading the ball around to your top 3 receivers which means more about who is throwing to who than yards after catch......and you are using yards per completion to make a stupid claim.

And the only information I have on deep balls, is NFL's total passing yardage stats over 40+ which once again has Dalton with 12 bombs over 40 and Cam with 10.

[Floppin]

PFFL that's a retarded example and you know it. The only way to get the figures you want are to greatly exaggerate the figures.

No one is going to have a massive number of 2 yard passes and a large number of 40 yard passes, with nothing in between. The fact is that it's an average, as you stated, and as such, it proves that Cam's passes travel further down field as an average per pass.

You want to argue that Dalton has these large numbers of down field passes, more so than Newton, and if that were true the averages would support it. The fact is that the few in air down field completions that Dalton has are negated, in his average, by his vastly greater number of shorter passes via his scheme.

Further more, even with those averages that you posted like a dumbass in that previous post, it's quite obvious who's scheme is more focused on downfield passing. QB1 might have more passes over 40 yards but he has fuging 30 passes at 2 yards, which means that 3/4 of his passes are for shorter than 2 yards. Where as your QB2 who doesn't have a pass under 10 yards. Now you tell me which QB has a downfield passing attack.

You continue to prove yourself an idiot at every turn.

[Floppin]

What exactly is it that you're trying to prove PFFL? Every time I prove something wrong you change your argument. Are you just trying to show that Dalton is a better QB than Cam?

[ReturnOfPFFL]

PFFL that's a retarded example and you know it. The only way to get the figures you want are to greatly exaggerate the figures.

No one is going to have a massive number of 2 yard passes and a large number of 40 yard passes, with nothing in between. The fact is that it's an average, as you stated, and as such, it proves that Cam's passes travel further down field as an average per pass.

You want to argue that Dalton has these large numbers of down field passes, more so than Newton, and if that were true the averages would support it. The fact is that the few in air down field completions that Dalton has are negated, in his average, by his vastly greater number of shorter passes via his scheme.

Further more, even with those averages that you posted like a dumbass in that previous post, it's quite obvious who's scheme is more focused on downfield passing. QB1 might have more passes over 40 yards but he has fuging 30 passes at 2 yards, which means that 3/4 of his passes are for shorter than 2 yards. Where as your QB2 who doesn't have a pass under 10 yards. Now you tell me which QB has a downfield passing attack.

You continue to prove yourself an idiot at every turn.

No I never argued that he has a lot of down field passes in my original post. I simply argued he has the same amount of air yards as newton, better completion %, more touchdowns, more completions and completes proportionately the same amount of passes to his top 3 receivers.

You tried to back up his claim by using average yards per completion...

The conclusion you draw that yards per completion supports your argument ALSO supports that guys like Newton, Palmer, Freeman are better deep ball throwers than Peyton, Brady, Brees and Rodgers.

Only an idiot would agree with that.

I used an exaggerated example to show you why you can't draw that conclusion without actually knowing the breakdown. And now you are changing your argument. You said deep balls. Now it's downfield passing attack. Fine, either way can't figure that out from aypc which is why I said you need the break down to actually figure out what you are trying to claim.

The scheming, which is what you want to get to, is a lot easier to get an idea of by looking at his top 3 targets, not freaking yards per completion. Is he throwing more to his running backs, dumping off the ball, to his tight ends or to his receivers....and it turns out both Andy and Cam have the same order of receivers for targets. #1, TE, and #2.

I will just add this and leave it at that. For example, last year...

Cincinnati Bengals QB Andy Dalton completed 46.2 percent of his throws last season that traveled more than 20 yards in the air, which ranked fourth in the NFL. He also was one of six quarterbacks last season with at least 15 completions of at least 30 yards.

Eli Manning 21

Aaron Rodgers 20

Mathew Stafford 18

Drew Brees 17

Tony Romo 17

Andy Dalton 15

http://espn.go.com/b...phomore-swagger

And it still looks good to me this year: http://www.nfl.com/n...ng-long-td-pass

[MadHatter]

You couldn't hit the hole of Brooklyn slut Floppin.

Let's not bring your wife into this conversation.

[Floppin]

Okay one more post then I'm done with you because you literally go around in circles.

No I never argued that he has a lot of down field passes in my original post. I simply argued he has the same amount of air yards as newton, better completion %, more touchdowns, more completions and completes proportionately the same amount of passes to his top 3 receivers.

No, you used air yards to disprove that Dalton plays in a WCO which utilizes shorter routes to protect his weakness for downfield passing. Of course this was intellectually dishonest because you didn't take into account the completion ratio in correspondence with the air yards. Not only did Dalton has slightly less air yads than Newton but he's needed almost 70 more passes to get anywhere near to Newton level. This is because of scheme and why AYPC is important to the argument.

You tried to back up his claim by using average yards per completion...

The conclusion you draw that yards per completion supports your argument ALSO supports that guys like Newton, Palmer, Freeman are better deep ball throwers than Peyton, Brady, Brees and Rodgers.

Only an idiot would agree with that.

No dipshit, I never used it to argue that he was "better" than anyone at throwing downfield (except that I stated that he was better than Dalton) only that he was asked to do it more as related to scheme. Peyton, Brady, Brees, and to a less extent Rogers, all run spread WCO style quick passing schemes, so of course Newton's AYPC would be higher because he runs a long developing downfield passing attack with AC route trees.

I used an exaggerated example to show you why you can't draw that conclusion without actually knowing the breakdown. And now you are changing your argument. You said deep balls. Now it's downfield passing attack. Fine, either way can't figure that out from aypc which is why I said you need the break down to actually figure out what you are trying to claim.

The scheming, which is what you want to get to, is a lot easier to get an idea of by looking at his top 3 targets, not freaking yards per completion. Is he throwing more to his running backs, dumping off the ball, to his tight ends or to his receivers....and it turns out both Andy and Cam have the same order of receivers for targets. #1, TE, and #2.

It doesn't matter what scheme you run, they are all going to have their highest completion percentages to their #1, TE, and #2. That's just the way it is, they are your primary receivers. There's not a scheme in the league that focuses on passing to the RB's or the FB's more than your fuging #1 receiver. Are you legally retarded or what? It's all about WHERE ON THE FIELD said receivers get the ball, not who's getting it.

[ReturnOfPFFL]

Wow.

Yes your top 3 targets do matter, because if your #2 and #3 receivers in targets are your running backs and tight ends, you're not playing the deep ball. I'm not talking about completion % when I listed that. I'm talking about positions and the percentage of targets to each position.

For example, Eli Manning's #2 and #3 are both WIDE RECEIVERS. He's one of the best deep ball throwers in the league and uses a primarily vertical attack.

This tells you a lot more about what they are doing than your silly aypc math.

And you didn't directly make that claim, you tried to back up his claim with your ridiculous calculations. His claim was that Andy had issues with the deep ball. If that's not what you are arguing, WTF are you arguing?

On this final ridiculous claim, I will just add this and leave it at this....since I can't find this year's.

Cincinnati Bengals QB Andy Dalton completed 46.2 percent of his throws last season that traveled more than 20 yards in the air, which ranked fourth in the NFL. He also was one of six quarterbacks last season with at least 15 completions of at least 30 yards.

Eli Manning 21

Aaron Rodgers 20

Mathew Stafford 18

Drew Brees 17

Tony Romo 17

Andy Dalton 15

http://espn.go.com/b...phomore-swagger

Andy Dalton's AYPC in 2011 - 6.6

Cam Newton's AYPC in 2011 - 6.7

Cam's AYPC was higher in 2011, and he didn't make the list. This is what I'm trying to get through that brick head of yours! It's a stupid idea to draw the conclusions you are from yards per completion. Once again, you're wrong. GFY.

And his deep ball still looks good to me this year: http://www.nfl.com/n...ng-long-td-pass

PS: There is nothing intellectually dishonest about Andy Dalton running a pro style WCO, which most of the pro QB's run in the NFL vs the Spread Option when it comes to completion %. Spread Option is actually easier from a passing standpoint. Spread Option can help QB's complete passes at 70% just as easily if not easier than WCO. See Robert Griffin the 3rd. Russel Wilson's 63%. You get the advantage of wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide open receivers downfield when the defense forgets to account for them because they have to commit one extra guy to your rushing QB.

[Floppin]

Wow.

Yes your top 3 targets do matter, because if your #2 and #3 receivers in targets are your running backs and tight ends, you're not playing the deep ball. I'm not talking about completion % when I listed that. I'm talking about positions and the percentage of targets to each position.

For example, Eli Manning's #2 and #3 are both WIDE RECEIVERS. He's one of the best deep ball throwers in the league and uses a primarily vertical attack.

This tells you a lot more about what they are doing than your silly aypc math.

And you didn't directly make that claim, you tried to back up his claim with your ridiculous calculations. His claim was that Andy had issues with the deep ball. If that's not what you are arguing, WTF are you arguing?

On this final ridiculous claim, I will just add this and leave it at this....since I can't find this year's.

Andy Dalton's AYPC in 2011 - 6.6

Cam Newton's AYPC in 2011 - 6.7

Cam's AYPC was higher in 2011, and he didn't make the list. This is what I'm trying to get through that brick head of yours! It's a stupid idea to draw the conclusions you are from yards per completion. Once again, you're wrong. GFY.

And his deep ball still looks good to me this year: http://www.nfl.com/n...ng-long-td-pass

Dear lord PFFL, you still don't recognize what you're looking at. He was fourth in completion percentage of deep balls, that doesn't mean that he threw the most. Then the graph you posted was for >30 yard completions, which ISN"T IN THE AIR. You're posting conflicting statistics.

Here's something for you to nibble on. In 2011 Cam ranked 5th in the league in % of pass attempts at >15 yards at 25.7% of his passes. Meaning that cam had around 133 pass attempts of greater than 15 yards.

Dalton on the other hand was ranked 22nd TWENTY SECOND in the league in % of pass attempts at >15 yards at 19.9. Dalton had around 111 pass attempts of greater than 15 yards.

[Floppin]

Now I am going to really stop responding to you as I have something to go do. Peace out loser.

[ReturnOfPFFL]

Dear lord PFFL, you still don't recognize what you're looking at. He was fourth in completion percentage of deep balls, that doesn't mean that he threw the most. Then the graph you posted was for >30 yard completions, which ISN"T IN THE AIR. You're posting conflicting statistics.

Here's something for you to nibble on. In 2011 Cam ranked 5th in the league in % of pass attempts at >15 yards at 25.7% of his passes. Meaning that cam had around 133 pass attempts of greater than 15 yards.

Dalton on the other hand was ranked 22nd TWENTY SECOND in the league in % of pass attempts at >15 yards at 19.9. Dalton had around 111 pass attempts of greater than 15 yards.

First, 4th in completion % of deep balls means he is accurate with the deep ball. This backs up the point, Andy can throw the deep ball accurately, yes?

Second, attempts are just that. Attempts. That's why completion % matters. Andy didn't throw a lot last year. He was very conservative and this year they are letting him throw the ball more. A philosophy I happen to agree with when it comes to grooming a rookie QB, if you care about winning too.

And finally, that was not the only thing that said, so let me re-bold it for you.

He also was one of six quarterbacks last season with at least 15 completions of at least 30 yards.

Eli Manning 21

Aaron Rodgers 20

Mathew Stafford 18

Drew Brees 17

Tony Romo 17

Andy Dalton 15

He had more deep ball completions than Cam Newton of at least 30 yards. There is nothing else for us to debate.

Look at his company and then ask yourself what does the fact that Cam Newton attempted more, and didn't even make the list means in relation to this deep ball debate?

I'll let you figure that one out...

[teeray]

Hey sorry i am late. Dalton sucks.

I don't care what obscure stats you look at, if you are attempting 31.5 passes a game and are only averaging 196.8 yards per game, against terrible defensive teams like KC, Oak, Dallas, SD, and Philly which is Dalton's last 5 games. You aren't getting the ball downfield.

Which is a shame because in the WCO that Dalton is running you should have much bigger windows to throw into downfield because most of the linebackers are having to stay up to take away those short quick passes.

It is a lot different when you run an AC offense and on passing plays everyone drops into deep coverage (which is why the screen pays usually work so well in AC offenses like CAR and SD). Not sure what all the stats are, i haven't read all of PFFL likely misleading statistical analysis. But a WCO you should always have a higher completion percentage than a AC offense and also you should be able to get easier throws downfield.

If Dalton ran an AC offense it would likely be a nightmare. But that is why he is running a WCO. It better fits his abilities. Much like I think the AC is a good fit for Newton... when we run it right.

[rayzor]

Hey sorry i am late. Dalton sucks.

I don't care what obscure stats you look at, if you are attempting 31.5 passes a game and are only averaging 196.8 yards per game, against terrible defensive teams like KC, Oak, Dallas, SD, and Philly which is Dalton's last 5 games. You aren't getting the ball downfield.

Which is a shame because in the WCO that Dalton is running you should have much bigger windows to throw into downfield because most of the linebackers are having to stay up to take away those short quick passes.

It is a lot different when you run an AC offense and on passing plays everyone drops into deep coverage (which is why the screen pays usually work so well in AC offenses like CAR and SD). Not sure what all the stats are, i haven't read all of PFFL likely misleading statistical analysis. But a WCO you should always have a higher completion percentage than a AC offense and also you should be able to get easier throws downfield.

If Dalton ran an AC offense it would likely be a nightmare. But that is why he is running a WCO. It better fits his abilities. Much like I think the AC is a good fit for Newton... when we run it right.

absolute truth.

a WCO is a completion percentage inflating system. it always has been. it comes with the scheme. a coryell usually has lower comp. % just because of the nature of the system. you have one that the majority of the passes are short and quick high percentage under 15yard throws and the other thrives on mid-range and deep balls. it just makes sense that the closer you are, the more on the money you're going to be.

[Floppin]

PFFL with his uncle in 2007.