Keenan Allen Pro Day Tommorow.

[Ivan The Awesome]

Allen said himself his knee was at 100%. No excuses. Fans like yourself blamed the QB at Cal for Keenan not being able to get enough separation between him and DBs but his speed has always been average at best. Who cares if he played at slot and on the outside? Both Hopkins and Bailey did that too.

Dismiss what? I recommend you re-read my statement. I didn't criticize his hands and routes, now did I? I made a point that you didn't bother to address. What makes Allen better than Hopkins? It ain't his hands, it isn't his routes, and it certainly isn't his speed and size.

So you tell me, how is he superior to a WR like Hopkins?

So its not an excuse because he said it and it was true. I'm not even mentioning what his doctor said which by the way, he's a doctor... I advise you re-read my statements and tell me when I mentioned Hopkins or even said that I don't want Hopkins... You're arguing with yourself. Fans like you are quick to dismiss key pieces of information just to be "right".

Just so you don't spew crap and try to put things in my mouth. I want Allen, Hopkins, Hunter. Either one of them is fine with me.

Also saying that Hopkins is better only because Most people say Allen had a crap QB is asenine. Allen had Clausen 2.0 throwing him the ball. Guess what? He produced with that crap QB play. Making him more skillful.

[SIGCHI222]

85%.

Even if Allen were completely at 100%, I doubt he'd run a 4.4. Keenan has average speed. I saw him running a 4.55 or a 4.62, if healthy.

4.71 times .85 equals 4.0035. Again, not sure if any of us are using any type of logic that Aristotle or Plato would agree with.

[panther4life]

Everybody on NFLN dismissed the 40 time as he has only been cleared to workout for a few weeks and never thought he was going to kill it in the 40 anyway.

His route running and hands( Hopkins drops a lot of balls) are in fact superior to Hopkins for those asking. Just go to YouTube type in the prospects name and add "vs".,, plenty of game cut ups will arise and allow you to see for yourself.

I did notice Hopkins getting deep more often but this also seems to be a byproduct of his qb and offensive line providing the time for such routes. Defendes also tended to spy on Allen with multiple players and he still got separation with suddenness in his routes.

Allen also had enough speed to be trusted as a returner and proved explosive enough as evidenced by Cal's willingness to to hand him the ball in the backfield.

If you are dying for a straight line speedster Hopkins and Allen are the wrong guys to consider. I'd recommend Austin and Patterson for this.

I'd prefer Patterson of the 2 speedsters as I like his physical tools that accompany the speed. Yes he's not as polished as Austin but I just think he's not the right fit for our offense. I don't see him getting up for jump balls anywhere on YouTube, his combine vertical sucked and his bench reps concern me in terms of beating the jam.

Allen seems to be the most balanced receiver of the group and has the lowest floor IMO assuming he can heal properly and in time. If you want highest ceiling then that belongs to Patterson.

[panthers55]

For what it's worth, Jerry Rice ran a 4.71.

Everybody has an opinion but you guys that are dogmatically stating that your opinion is the only possible correct conclusion are making me laugh.

Once again I bring up Luke Kuechly, who like a total of 4 of us wanted last year during these discussions.

We should all just cool our jets.

Well I was one of those who championed Newton in 2011 and Kuechly in 2012, and I clearly don't see Allen anywhere close to either of those 2. In fact the lack of exceptional talent in the first and the depth of the draft have made me somewhat ambivalent about who to champion this year. But anyone who thinks a receiver who is not heads and shoulders above the others when 100% is worth a top 15 pick when he can't even run all the drills and admits he is only 75% after 5 months of rehab is thinking with his heart and not his head.

And using Jerry Rice's 4.71 to justify drafting an injured receiver is like saying that we should only draft quarterbacks in the 6th round because that is where Tom Brady was drafted.

[SIGCHI222]

Well I was one of those who championed Newton in 2011 and Kuechly in 2012, and I clearly don't see Allen anywhere close to either of those 2. In fact the lack of exceptional talent in the first and the depth of the draft have made me somewhat ambivalent about who to champion this year. But anyone who thinks a receiver who is not heads and shoulders above the others when 100% is worth a top 15 pick when he can't even run all the drills and admits he is only 75% after 5 months of rehab is thinking with his heart and not his head.

And using Jerry Rice's 4.71 to justify drafting an injured receiver is like saying that we should only draft quarterbacks in the 6th round because that is where Tom Brady was drafted.

Ahh, let's use past anomalies to predict the future. Where was Micheal Jordan drafted?

The Bobcats should trade to that position (regardless of cost) every year, correct?

[Ivan The Awesome]

Well I was one of those who championed Newton in 2011 and Kuechly in 2012, and I clearly don't see Allen anywhere close to either of those 2. In fact the lack of exceptional talent in the first and the depth of the draft have made me somewhat ambivalent about who to champion this year. But anyone who thinks a receiver who is not heads and shoulders above the others when 100% is worth a top 15 pick when he can't even run all the drills and admits he is only 75% after 5 months of rehab is thinking with his heart and not his head.

And using Jerry Rice's 4.71 to justify drafting an injured receiver is like saying that we should only draft quarterbacks in the 6th round because that is where Tom Brady was drafted.

So we should get Austin then, because he's clearly the #1 guy right? Oh wait no we shouldn't, because he's smitty 2.0..

You're clearly twisting data given. Allen and Rice (pre hall if fame) are and were similar. Same 40 time, height, build, hands. Polished route runner. Etc etc.

He did say for what its worth. Take it with a grain of salt. The similarities are there.

[Monday Night Shyamalan]

I think Hopkins is the most complete....his ceiling just isn't the highest

Hopkins is a close second for me, I see your point though. A college players ceiling is a variable I hold in high regard, I don't believe most athletes fully develop until their mid-20's (primarily in regards to mental aspects of the game. I would still rather have Hopkins over Patterson, Hunter, Austin, etc.

[panthers55]

Ahh, let's use past anomalies to predict the future. Where was Micheal Jordan drafted?

The Bobcats should trade to that position (regardless of cost) every year, correct?

Are you trying to make my argument or what? Didn't you use a past anomaly like Jerry Rice to justify why we should draft Allen? Now you are arguing you shouldn't have done that?????????

[panthers55]

So we should get Austin then, because he's clearly the #1 guy right? Oh wait no we shouldn't, because he's smitty 2.0..

You're clearly twisting data given. Allen and Rice (pre hall if fame) are and were similar. Same 40 time, height, build, hands. Polished route runner. Etc etc.

He did say for what its worth. Take it with a grain of salt. The similarities are there.

Actually I am not sold on any receiver at 14. I wouldn't touch one before the second given how many are close in talent. And you are the one twisting data if you think that Jerry Rice and Allen are similar because they each ran a 4.71. Dwayne Jarrett has a similar build, height, hands and was faster than Allen so I guess that means Allen will be as successful as Jarrett was right??? The similarities are there......

And yeah I think it is closer to compare Jarrett to Allen who are similar in size, skill, hands and ability who both came from Pac 12 schools where corners are soft than it is to compare Allen to Jerry Rice.

[Monday Night Shyamalan]

Growl

I've come to agree with allot of your posts, but Christ man do you really need to post with such an over compensatory pseudo intellectual vocabulary. You just come off as an asshat.

Relax man.

Exactly what I wanted to say.

[pantherclaw]

So we're not getting him?

;)

[MasterAwesome]

I don't mind the pseudo-intellectual vocab, but the need to use overly-exaggerated quips in quotation marks in literally every other post is extremely childish. I'm assuming he thinks he's being witty, but it's really just annoying and detracts from whatever point he's trying to make.

Example:

Poster: A 4.71 40 is pretty disappointing for Allen...I was hoping for a bit faster time.

Growl: Wow that's all you can come up with?! "Yo DaWg itz all boUtS dat SPEED sonn!! SPeeD GooD, SloW Bad!!!"

He takes a harmless comment and twists it around so that it sounds like it came from a 13 year old with Down Syndrome and puts it in quotation marks as if he's actually quoting the person. That's one hell of a lame debate tactic...it's annoying as poo.

[Dash Global]

Allen ran a 4.7?!? Thats terrible for a WR.

[koolkatluke]

Growl

I've come to agree with allot of your posts, but Christ man do you really need to post with such an over compensatory pseudo intellectual vocabulary. You just come off as an asshat.

Relax man.

He calls it "intellectually speaking". Don't get but hurt because he has a thesaurus and not afraid to use it.