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I did a huge thread on this. on two of Bryce’s claimed GWD he didn’t even throw a pass. one was just a field goal after Daniel jones fumbled on the first play of overtime.

Could it be a hint of situational play calling? Finally!

I appreciate you putting the work into this. It's one I struggle with. I do think we have some games where, if he plays better, were not in a position to need a game winning drive. I also think he's had some games, like Sunday against the dirty birds, for which without the dude, we lose the game. period. Part of the reason he has so many of these is due to the opportunities. His rookie year we sucked out loud. We could only really win by scoring before the buzzer. Last year was more of the same. That defensive unit last year with no DB was abysmal. Now that we finally aren't one of the worst defenses in football, we are seeing a lot better results. I do think Bryce was more consistent at the end of last season opposed to this season. The next step that we'd all like to see though is when we play a bad team like the saints, and they put 9 guys in the box, Bryce has to make them pay. And then we don't win on a game winning drive, we win by 14, because it's the NFL and you should get punished for putting 9 in the box. I still think he's only the guy that can lead us to success for this window of players. I'd like to see us get better at all three levels on defense in the offseason. We lose very little to free agency. Next year is the year.

The topic of GWD started about Bryce but for me, when I realized what it really was, it isn’t about Bryce any more it is about a bad use of statistics. You can flip it and say okey we know that x y and z games he took the team down and got the score with time running out. Another QB handed it off, early in the 4th quarter and got the same little gold star as Bryce did for what he did Sunday. It doesn’t have to be about discrediting Bryce. It could be about accurately crediting a player for what he did. I don’t see that it is doing that.

This is a reach. Saying he is a non factor in the run game is total BS. Dude has made a noticeable difference in the run game than what we were without him on the field. Not to mention his effort is unquestionable. He’s a rookie that looks to be improving and that’s promising. He does leave more to be desired in pass rushing situations though

I've been doing it too much, I have to stop. I find it funny because it reads like far too many people here...

It's not that serious lol.

100%. Stats are just trying to communicate stuff to you that happened, and if you had seen it you probably wouldn’t need the stats so much. They are cool for record keeping like we know that 448 was a team record. I said that in an earlier post, like if I watched Bryce play Sunday and the previous Sunday, I don’t need stats to tell me he was great in one game and horrible in the other.

Nice strawman, Dave.

He deserves credit for the good things and the bad things. I’m thrilled when he does well but there’s been a lot of bad things and not enough good things.

He does for Sunday with reinjuring ankle being tackled and then his own starting RG stomping it on 4th down. That one counts in a resounding way!

At a certain point, you have to let your eyes see what's happening on the field. The nuance of everything going on in a football game is never going to be captured by analytical statistics. Too much information becomes noise. But we're interested in the signal.

This is not a dis: Greg Olsen's best plays were of the "catch ball, fall down go boom" variety He was dependably great at it

No beef at all. I agree with it. My point is several folks on here like to say he didn't deserve this win or that win because somebody else did all the work. My point is, the criteria is set and if he is the QB of record when the GWD occurs he gets credit regardless of how much he had to do with it.

That is my argument on this. It is so broadly defined that it doesn’t tell you who the dawgs are and who got a participation trophy for moving the ball 7 yards into FG range by handing it off to your RB. Okay the real dawgs get credit for that handing off too, so it is fair. Do I want to use that to measure the value of my QB”s play? To get there you have to dig deeper the stat as it is defined just isn’t a good tool IMO Like getting garbage time stats and they count the same as those 448 yards Bryce earned in a tightly contested game the other day. They shouldn’t. I don’t have anything worked out that would redefine and improve the usefulness of the GWD but maybe there should be a stat for the 2 minute drill stuff, the 4 minute drill, where the QB really was challenged and responded.

And as a Bryce fan and apologist, I see you describe XL's effort on the endzone throw vs. NO as half hearted/feeble. That is why people give overzealous Bryce fans so much shite. It was a miss by him and his downfield accuracy has been awful. It was a big effort for XL to get a hand on the ball with a DB draped all over him. Because you are a Bryce apologist, you see it as a feeble and half hearted attempt. XL is an easy target. Maybe a better throw would've helped him haul in the catch with the DB riding him into the endzone. Sunday's pass was a catchable ball no more no less and he caught it. What were your thoughts when he was running wide open in the end zone a few possessions later and Bryce threw it short? Should he have given a better effort to stop on a dime and jump back towards the coverage he beat? These WRs have been getting open, but the scheming was better Sunday and Bryce played better Sunday. Its as simple as that. No need to dump on WRs when their play is directly tied to the QB you are praising. Every reception shouldn't involve some herculean effort.

Execution matters! This is why Arn Andersn was such a great wrestler. He wasnt the most athletic or best looking but he was a tactician. He showed up to work everyday with a speedo in his lunchbox and a can do attitude. He was a pros pro.

The guy can be clutch and has the ability to play a complete game. The big question is consistency IMO.

Elite speed matters less than elite route running. Ask Jerry Rice. But....elite speed always has to be accounted for.

Hard no there Crocodile Dundee! We all know the true leader, Alpha Chad, macho-macho man QBs never get YAC. They throw the ball so well that the WR has to stop and take a knee and pray to Angry Jesus the beauty of that pass while the whole stadium gives a quiet golf clap in awe. In case no one could figure it out, I'm kidding. I'm not an alpha chad, lol

Applying flags as positive yards for Bryce is certainly one way to model it.

I have no problem with existing GWD criteria. I think it's just goofy to apply it to a player attempting to make him seem better than he is without the full picture of their career performances.

Such a loser stat. Don't you know that true Alpha Chads lead their wolfpacks to 70-0 wins all the time! Real QBs never make mistakes, never had bad games or halves, and all of their perfect throws just WIN the game! That's how some people sound around here...I find it funny. Good analysis. QBs always have gotten an outsized amount of credit for wins and losses, certainly in drives.

You are talking about purely last possession? That would be an extremely small amount and likely almost be exclusively GW FG drives. Outside the EXTREMELY rare walk off TD, most of these scenarios involve the other team getting the ball back in some fashion(kickoff, last couple of plays, etc).

I decided to do a statistical analysis to find out. I used Pro Football Reference's list of his game-winning drives (GWD) for this. tl:dr; Bryce deserves no credit for two games, partial credit for either two or three games, and broadly deserves credit for the rest. Only 2 of the GWD are of no credit to him at all. 2023 Week 7 vs. Houston (15-13) Full-game statline - 22/31 (70.9%), 235 passing yards, 1 touchdown Final drive - Drive began on the Carolina 9 yard line with 6:17 left in the 4th quarter, down 13-12. Bryce accounted for 55 total yards on the drive (50 passing, 5 rushing); Chuba ran for 13, and the Texans gave up 28 yards on penalties. Does Bryce deserve credit? - Yes. Bryce accounted for all offensive yardage before reaching the Texans 30. Week 14 vs. Atlanta (9-7) Full-game statline - 18/24 (75%), 167 passing yards Final drive - Drive began on the Carolina 5 yard line with 7:35 left in the 4th quarter, down 7-6. Bryce threw for 68 yards on the drive and kneeled three times when in field goal range. Does Bryce deserve credit? - Yes. Bryce accounted for all but 20 yards on the drive. 2024 Week 9 vs. New Orleans (23-22) Full-game statline - 16/26 (61.5%), 171 passing yards, 1 touchdown and 1 interception Final drive - Drive began on the Carolina 34 with 3:25 left in the 4th. Bryce threw for 26 yards, and drew a 22-yard pass interference penalty. Chuba Hubbard scored the game-winning 16-yard touchdown. Does Bryce deserve credit? - Yes. Passing and pass interference accounted for all but 16 yards on the drive. Week 10 vs. New York Giants (20-17) Full-game statline - 15/25 (60%), 121 passing yards, 1 touchdown; 30 rushing yards Final drive - Drive began in overtime at the New York 23-yard line immediately after the Giants fumbled the first snap. Chuba ran three times. Bryce did not throw a pass. Does Bryce deserve credit? - No. Bryce literally did nothing on this one due to generous field position in overtime. Week 15 vs. Arizona (36-30) Full-game statline - 17/26 (65.4%), 158 passing yards, 1 touchdown; 68 rushing yards, 1 touchdown Final drive - Drive began on the Arizona 49 with 4:11 left in overtime. Chuba ran twice for 49 yards and a touchdown. Does Bryce deserve credit? - No. Bryce literally did nothing on this one. Week 17 at Atlanta (44-38) Full-game statline - 25/34 (73.5%), 251 passing yards, 3 touchdowns; 24 rushing yards, 2 touchdowns Final drive - Drive began on the Carolina 30 at the start of overtime. Bryce threw for 56 yards; Miles Sanders scored the game-winning one-yard touchdown. Does Bryce deserve credit? - Yes. Bryce accounted for the vast majority of yards on this drive. 2025 Week 5 vs. Miami (27-24) Full-game statline - 19/30 (63.3%), 198 passing yards, 2 touchdowns and 1 interception Final drive - Drive began at the Carolina 17. Bryce completed three passes for 45 yards and a touchdown; there were also three runs for 33 yards by other players Does Bryce deserve credit? - Yes. Bryce accounted for the majority of yards and the game-winning touchdown. Week 6 vs. Dallas (30-27) Full-game statline -17/25 (68%), 199 passing yards, 3 touchdowns and 1 interception Final drive - Final drive began at the Carolina 14 with 6:07 left in the fourth. 37 yards were recorded on the ground, while Bryce threw for 25 yards and drew a 12-yard pass interference penalty. Does Bryce deserve credit? - Partially. No one player stood out on this drive. Week 9 at Green Bay (16-13) Full-game statline - 11/20 (55%), 102 passing yards, 1 interception Final drive - Final drive began at the Carolina 29 with 2:28 left in the fourth. Rico recorded 21 rushing yards while Bryce threw for 19 yards. Does Bryce deserve credit? - Equal credit with Rico. Both recorded nearly identical yardage totals. Week 11 at Atlanta (30-27) Full-game statline - 31/45 (68.9%), 448 passing yards, 3 touchdowns Final drive - Final drive began at the Carolina 31 with 8:45 left in overtime. Bryce threw one pass to Tommy Tremble for 54 yards. Does Bryce deserve credit? - Tommy Tremble deserves the most credit here, but Bryce threw the pass. In conclusion: there's really only two games here he did nothing in. The rest he gets at least some or a majority of the credit.