SetfreexX

So when nine are from a team not of his making, not of his choosing, you hang all nine simply on him ''not being quality enough'' when he just took a 1-4 team to 7 and 10.... I'd say that's some damn good coaching considering the gaps we have on the roster, and no QB.

Then who's the hire that gets you excited, what does ''x'' candidate bring that warrants the excitement. NFL coaching staffs are an exercise in nepotism, always has been a good ole' boys / my guys kind of operation. That's not going to change with a new coach, Steichen will pull from PHI's staff / Dorsey from BUF and possibly some former Panthers guys elsewhere / Moore would bring guys from DAL, and maybe even some collegiate contacts he's maintained, same for Reich / Caldwell both former Colts coaches. The only that would really changes is tied to if the coach is an Off minded guy versus Def, and most comments in here simply ''want'' an Off minded guy, but no real preference has been provided, and no real record of success for any of them has been referenced, which I covered in the fact that I'd like Reich or Caldwell.

How can we say Wilks is familiar, to Ron, or Fox until he actually has a QB / Staff to judge him in full by? That's why I think it should be him, these new guys bring little experience if any even in their area of expertise (1-3 years of OC experience) and never led a team, and on the other hand Wilks has a lot of NFL experience which is why I think he was able to do what he did this year, which to me earned a look moving forward. For all the respect Josh McDaniels received as an OC, look what he's done in DEN / OAK. Do we really thing a McVay, or Shanahan is to be found in Steichen / Moore / Dorsey? That's all I'm saying.

I wonder how many other NFL teams lost 3 games or more by double digits SEA - 3 double digit losses NYG - 3 double digit losses MIN - 5 double digit losses MIA - 4 double digit losses _______________________________________________ Here are four playoff teams that were WC / Division winner (MIN) -- the division winner has the same amount as us under Wilks... The difference all those teams have is they have a competent quarterback. Off or Def minded or not, it doesn't matter if you don't have a quarterback. You'd think and ''offensive'' minded guy wouldn't lose by double digits, the coach in MIA he's such a brilliant offensive mind that it doesn't matter if Tua or Teddy B are playing, offensive mind will over come the absence of a viable quarterback. And to some degree I say that with sarcasm as like I mentioned, you have to have a quarterback to score, the fact we only had three with Wilks and a QB carousel says a lot about the job he did here with a skeleton staff / post firing some Rhule left overs (Cooper / Snow). What's the next goalpost we want to move?

So you're saying McD is the only defensive minded coach capable of learning...and that you ACTUALLY need a QB to not lean towards being conservative when trying to win games because you are at a disadvantage.... Man I wonder what I've been trying to explain this whole time....*checks notes* Damn, that's exactly what I've been saying, the primary issue isn't outright the coach now that Rhule is gone, it's the absence of 1) A legit NFL QB, and 2) A legit NFL OC / mind on the staff in general.

The other bars provided were limited at best...and without context. If it's derailed its derailed by those with no intent to have an open conversation about it versus simply dismissing the notion like has been done by many, or simply, ''not making it past the title'' which is why those folks were categorized and I even included ''in jest'' as to not seriously demean, belittle, or provoke. It seems that effort may have been lost in the effort to respond as quick as possible to ''call me out''.

So an outright unrealistic expectation... Versus taking a team out of the gutter and in position to compete for the playoffs, you play who you play. It was us and TB, ATL wasn't getting in, and neither was NO down the stretch. It was a two team race in Week 17, so from 1-4 to that is a resurrection; and honestly finishing .500 could also be considered an unrealistic expectation as no one saw that coming either.

HC Candidates Linked to Panthers: Sean Payton Frank Reich Jim Caldwell Kellen Moore - Been an OC for 3 years iirc Ken Dorsey - First year OC in BUF, been a QB Coach for several Shane Steichen - Been an OC with LAC / PHI the past three years Demeco Ryans - Turned down opps Ben Johnson - Staying with DET ____________________________________________________ These are who come to mind off the top of my head, Payton, Reich, Caldwell I could all see being better than Rivera, I have also said I'm good with two of the three (would prefer not to lose draft capital to hire a coach) Of the three young OCs up and coming who is getting you into the playoffs, and what makes you feel that way, what can you base it on that is tangible. Who will be their DCs based on what's available, etc.

I do it for those that pay attention, it's not like I think he's the next great head coach, but I believe he's better for the ''Panthers'' than an up and comer with one year of OC experience, and no history at all. If he had not had the interim time it would be easier to dismiss him if you just look at the ARI situation without context. But that isn't the case. I'm fully aware most of the guys against it fall into one of a couple categories: Didn't want Cam PTSD from Rivera's conservatism even though it led to a lot of success / even now in WAS where they have more playoff appearances than us since he was fired with no QB to this day Ford F-150 ________________________________________________________________________ Some of that I say in jest, I want a better offense like everyone here, I think you can still keep Wilks' leadership by also hiring a strong OC -- I'm 100% ok with poaching a SF / LAR offensive assistant to add as an OC over McAdoo. I think what most of the folks that post that they are against this, don't seem to talk about ''WHO'' the hire should be....? I also said if we go the offensive route - Reich / Caldwell are my choices over ''insert young OC''. Leadership, and experience are what we presently need at the HC spot in my opinion Wilks, Reich, Caldwell could all provide that. This was never set up as a Wilks or bust post, just ''why'' I think he makes the most sense based off this past season along with projecting a better roster, with a QB worth a damn moving forward.

After two years of .300 win %, and a 1-4 start... To being in playoff contention up until Week 17.... Please define resurrection, because I know damn well watching on Sundays became worth it after he took over...

Do you know why... Can't be any planer, we DO NOT, and in those games this year DID NOT have a quarterback. Having QBs on the roster is not the same as ''having a quarterback''. ________________________ Pounding the rock was all this roster was capable of doing / sustaining _________________________ Some of ya'll acting like this season happened while we had a legit offense. Moore / the OL / Foreman....that was all we were really working with TMJ had flashes, Shi, had some flashes, we got practically NOTHING from the TE's outside a few Tremble TDs, but no consistent game to game TE threat... Like what exactly were people thinking was going to me a recipe to attempt to win games...

Spoken like a true huddler... Fact is, he resurrected this team damn near instantly with nothing to work with in the QB dept.

So on this roster with McAdoo as the inherited OC, and Baker, Sam, and PJ...you want to just air it out all over the yard just because that's what teams do now... Teams that can do that generally have the personnel to do that, and that starts with a QB... So who we ushering in this new age with that was on the 2022 Panthers roster...

McD's last year here 2016 26th in PPG allowed 21th in YPG allowed Steve Wilks 2017 11th in PPG allowed 7th in YPG allowed _______________________________________________________ Tell me more about riding coattails with the same personnel as you mentioned. As far as those double digit losses you throw out with no context -- only 3 were as the interim Panthers coach. (LAR (1st game as interim), CIN, BAL (10 points) The other three losses were by - 3, 8, and 6 points, that's a point differential of 5.67 So again, as stated, he didn't select his staff / QB in ARI and we're putting the results on his head 100%...got it. You're going to have to do better than throwing out stats from the ARI time as 1) it was 5 years ago, and 2) his lack of impact is limited due to and I say this again, not his staff / not his QB.

Pretty sure PJ had early turnovers that sparked the snowball, and if you watch the pressers, two of those three TD's was man coverage with deep safety help for each half of the field. So a better question would be were was the help, Keith like when Donte' fell just got beat by a better received. Wilks re-capped it in the presser after the game. If you only watched the game I could see how you might feel that way. Back to CIN let's not act like they are not a good team, and team many aspire to be. We got whooped, but the offense as we know being limited didn't show up, and the turnovers early killed us which meant running was no longer an option.

A close loss isn't a loss...FIFY And you can't take away or diminish the appearances just because you are not a fan of the coaching style, that is simply ignorant.

This is on the list of things why, which are in the OP. Again, I isolated this game as we limited their offense, and had a plan on offense to take advantage of their defense. IE: out-planning / out-coaching Same way we handled SEA, we know Darnold and PJ are liabilities at QB, yet we found ways to win with a GLARING weakness at QB. It's cool most folks here want an offensive minded coach, folks are also straight up dismissing the job he did this year, with this mess. Is your Ben Johnson's of the world going .500 with this??? That's a legit question to consider. Damian Williams was an established HB in GB, and set a record this year IRL, our gameplan limited that Aman-Ra was one of the best receivers as far as targets / production we limited that, and if not for the early bomb to Chark, we likely hold them under 20 points for the game. You can't highlight the failures and dismiss the success at the same time acting like what he did was not impressive, and likely deserving of more.

You're missing the point -- at no point did I say we should pound the ball... What he did as a coach was find an ''identity'' and a ''way to win'' with this roster. That's what a ''good'' coach does. Buffalo ''became'' a team that can pass the ball, but they also went out and traded for Diggs to give Allen a legit #1. Rivera failed to do that, I don't see Wilks making a similar mistake. This isn't about the old way vs new way, this is about who I think is a good coach, regardless of his Off / Def background.

Wilks coached a top 10 defense in yards allowed (7th), and 11th in PPG allowed... You consider this fact average? I already posted this and the link for reference. In contrast the 2016 defense, McDermott's last year here as he was hired January 11th, 2017 in Buffalo... PPG Allowed - 26th YPG Allowed - 21st ______________________________________________ People really forget why Wilks got the HC opps in the first place, and just focus on the 3-13 like he wasn't set up to fail day one. Didn't have a chance to choose his staff, or top 10 QB.

I've said a few times the biggest issue that we face isn't HC post Rhule, it's finding a quarterback. Running the ball only gets you so far, but the point of that game was to show that we handled the offense of a guy many thought could be our next HC until he decided to stay with DET.

Fired black coaches after one year also says a lot... David Culley / Lovie Smith most recently in back to back years in HOU say hello... Go look at that 2018 ARI roster...they were picking top 10 for a reason

If McD and company can do it in BUF why not here, what's the reason for this concern with Wilks? He didn't get to select a QB in ARI, and squeezed out 6-6 with Mayfield / Sam / PJ. And this isn't sarcasm, this is a legit open conversation.

Had us .500 over his span vs .300 under Rhule... Any data on these first year guys you have that says they're guaranteed to do better...? Every NFL has an identity, you don't go to PIT and get rid of the terrible towel, or drop the who dat in NO. Rhule had no idea wtf he was doing, and all I'm saying is I'm not sold on a 1st year OC turned HC being the answer. Some of you want ''change for the sake of change''. And Off or Def HC, none of that matters until we find a QB, and I was on the ''I want an offensive minded coach to pair with our rookie'' train, I beat the drum for it after seeing how Rivera mismanaged Cam, but I also see how McD and company up in Buffalo haven't failed Josh Allen. I see the ''Panthers Way'' working in Buffalo better than it ever did here.

Rooney satisfaction. Though they have a black QB so maybe since Kyler is rumored to have ''next coach'' input I can see it.

Not as a HC, I want to say he garnered some attention as a DC, we are talking about HC options atm. So if you are Wilks and your goal is to be a HC why would you interview for less. Flores was added to Pittsburgh roster due to Mike Tomlin creating a job as he was not a coordinator. That was ''minority'' coaches sticking together. You expect a one year OC, turned first year HC to ''out plan / out coach'' seasoned NFL veteran coaches? Look what we did to Ben Johnson's offense... Held their run game to 2.6 ypc Kept Amon-Ra under 100 receiving, and outside CJ getting mossed (51 yards) Chark was 3 for 57 _________________________________________________________ Are we talking about that kind of ''out planning / out coaching''? I mention Ben as he was the ''hot'' name. Ya'll forget Rhule was one of if not the ''HOTTEST'' name that cycle with a ''reputation'' for rebuilding programs. I'm just saying thinking that a 1st year OC turned HC is the way to the promised land is ''wishful'' thinking at best. And I get it offense has been so inept here, and we see NFL trends etc. but you also can't buy into the ''hype'' too much. Which is why I suggested Wilks on a 3yr / avg sal contract. Short enough to move on if needed, or room for an extension if earned inside two years. What we need more than anything that ALL of these OCs that people love so much have, is a QUARTERBACK. A Pep Hamilton pairing, I'd be open to Scott Turner returning, bringing in a coach from the SF, or LAR staff to be the OC makes sense to me as well. I'm just not sold on the ''inexperienced HC route''. Not after Rhule, and not with all the failure we've seen when teams try to ''find the next''. We can talk about the MIA coach, but look at the team he inherited...and what they did with all that cap space (Hill / Armstead / Chubb / etc.) Taylor and CIN, hit on a number one QB overall, and as time has shown you have about a 50% chance to hit. Kingsbury flamed out in ARI, and ended up at odds with ''his guy'' at QB. Nathaniel Hackett GB QB guru - 4-11 and fired with Russell Wilson, as bad as a season as they had, we all have seen Russ up close versus us over the years, he's not like what we saw this year. There are other examples over the years, if we went the offensive coach route, give me Reich or Caldwell, I want experience first and foremost and they have legit resumes.