BrianS

Everything you say is true, but no one is going to give a second round pick for a backup QB. I can't think of a team that would consider him as a starter, so that seems equally unlikely.

Defense hasn't been great, but they haven't been bad either. Dolphins scored 13 points on drives less than 25 yards. Just taking away the awful INT that led to the 9 yard TD drive would have completely changed the complexion of that game. That ain't on the defense. If you remove our turnovers from the last two games, we've given up 24 and 20 points. That slots us in as a solidly top 10 defense. I realize you can't just remove turnovers from the game, but you do have to look at the total picture when you want to make a sweeping statement like that.

This is what so many people don't understand. Tepper gets his attendance money before the season even starts. He doesn't care.

Why does it matter? Assuming he gets fired here, if the dude never works again he's set for life. Retired at 46? Not bad. Where do I sign up?

There are so many problem with the knee-jerk-Cam's-done hot takes. Did you even watch the game? Did you see our OLine? Yea, it was the worst it's been all season. Do you judge a QB by one game, really? Why not choose Sam's game against the Jets, or Saints and judge him on that? Or TB5's first game against Atlanta last year? And again, did you watch the game? Did you really look at those plays? Why is it that our receivers are not running open? It seems that there is always a contested catch or defender closing down. Our play design is not very good. It's so disheartening to see our fan base act like a bunch of children when it comes to their "hot takes". I said it when Cam came in and I'll keep saying it now. He may succeed or he may fail, but we won't know if Cam is still an NFL QB until the season is over. We brought a guy off his couch to play the hardest position in football on a team that isn't very good. Two weeks in we can't suddenly determine his success or failure.

I don't think we will get a true feel for what the Panthers are thinking until after the next five games have been played. They need to figure out if Cam is going to make it. If Cam plays well, even just marginally above average given the limitations on that side of ball they'll keep him. They couldn't afford the blowback from their fan base. Cam may be polarizing, but he is a proven NFL starter and winner. I also don't think the staff here want a rookie. If there was ever a time to draft one, it was last year. We no longer have any ammo to go after Deshaun. Jimmy G is interesting, but again, where does the ammo to go get him come from? I think Cam stays as the starter, Sam stays as the backup (can't afford to cut him). But that's based on the idea Cam doesn't flame out. I would not be at all surprised if we bring in a new OC. Joe Brady has done absolutely nothing to make anyone believe he's the next big thing. Quite the opposite. He's failed with two QB's and had a third look very bad last week.

Cam is not as quick as he used to be, but with any sort of OLine he's got enough in the tank to escape. What we saw yesterday was historically bad from our line.

We now have seen three QB's come through this system and not be able to score points. Our OLine has been a hot mess. When do we realize that there may be a problem with the system?

You're missing the point. Cam is a far better passer now than he has been at any point in his career regardless of his loss of overall velocity and depth. People tend to look at Cam as the player he used to be instead of looking at the player he is now.

I think you went off the rails a bit there at the end. I agree that QB's who rely heavily on their running haven't tended to be the most successful. On the flip side, I think you are discounting the strides Cam has made as a passer. Take a look at recent history. Cam has become quite a good passer. In the past he relied on the cannon arm he had, it allowed him to do things very few QB's have ever been able to do. That's gone, but he's adjusted. I think he's a better passer now than he's ever been in his career and his stats back it up. His touch and accuracy are way, way better. No, he's probably not ever going to be the passer Tom Brady is. But Brady will never have the full skill set that Cam has either. Cam is now good enough as a passer that you probably don't want to let him try to beat you from the pocket, because he can do that.

I see this brought up a lot. There's a kernel of truth there. Rhule definitely pays too much attention to versatility. That's probably the college coach in him coming out. On the flip side, having flexibility in your BACKUPS is incredibly valuable at this level. For example, I'd rather have five specialists as my starting OLine, but at the same time I would want my backups to cover a minimum of two positions each. I hope Rhule figures that out.

It takes time to turn things around. We were VERY fortunate that we were able to draft Cam when we did. Without him, it's very likely that the Rivera era doesn't turn nearly as quickly as it did. People forget just how bad it was at the end of the Fox era. JUST LIKE NOW. The end of the Rivera era was the 2nd worst defense in the league, the oldest defense in the league and an offense that wasn't much better. The difference is we've had Teddy and Sam here to try to turn it around instead of SuperCam. I get that Cam is back now, but anyone who tries to say he's the same Cam who helped turn things around back then are just plain wrong.

Appreciate that, but that isn't an excuse for every other game where we are terrible in the third quarter. In seven out of 11 games this year, we have a big, fat zero for points scored in the third quarter. We have ZERO games this year where we've scored more than a TD in the third quarter. Something is very, very wrong with our third quarter offense. I can't tell you what it is, but this is not debatable. It's broken.

We have a deep threat. It remains to be seen if Cam can use him. But I didn't see many plays called that were even designed with a deep option.

I agree, we couldn't get off the field, but you can't say our O was putting points up. 21 points is terrible. It's below average for the league. 24.5 is average, 26.5 gets you into the top 10. Our offense had MULTIPLE chances to win that game in the final six minutes, and we failed TWICE! The defense got a poo sandwich because the offense turned it over at our 32, and they held to a FG and gave the offense two minutes to win.

Anyone who thinks Cam was at fault isn't paying attention man. We had four drives in the first three quarters against Washington that did not end in points: 1. (First quarter) Fumbled snap / bad snap. Not sure what they were trying to do here, whether it was supposed to be a direct snap to CMC or a snap to Cam and hand to CMC. It looked bad, but in no way can Cam take the blame for that. 2. (First quarter) We had a 2nd and 2, which turned into a 2nd and 7 because of a false start, putting us behind the sticks. Not sure how you blame Cam for that one either. 3. (Second quarter) This one was on Cam, 100%. He had Robby wide open on a shallow under for a first down but pushed it further down to DJ instead and it was broken up. 100%, a poor decision. 4. (Third quarter) This was probably not on Cam. He was trying to get it to DJ who had sat down in a void, but the pass was deflected by a LB. Not sure if Tremble ran the wrong route or whether the design was bad, but Tremble led the LB directly to the point where he could deflect it. Coverage wasn't terrible, but without the underneath LB, this play may have worked. Even if you believe that going for it on fourth at our own 32 was the right call, and you allow that we got the ball back with a chance to win, that final sequence was awful play calling. 3rd and 2 and the WTF 48 with 1:16 left? Come on man, THAT is the perfect read option situation right there. That crap we called was just awful man. Nobody was open, and Cam tried to force it in. Then we take the sack on 4th down because, oh yea, nobody was open. Man, you gotta just get the 1st down. You have the most dynamic short yardage player in the league taking snaps. And we still can't get two yards in two plays? Come on man. That's not on Cam. No way.

Agree 100%. This is why I don't want to see as much read option. I love Cam, he's become a really solid decision maker in the passing game. However, we've got CMC and I would much rather see him with the ball in the run game. Cam may get you 3-5 yards, but CMC could break it for 20+ at any time. I think this is the problem. In the past, Cam was our biggest running threat. Now, on the read option, if I'm the DC I tell my guys to take away CMC and let Cam do it. It lets you as a defense punish the QB and keep the ball out of the hands of the best back in football. That seems like defense 101 to me.

No, I get it, we definitely did not do the job shutting them down. Only two 3-and-out drives for WTF yesterday. I just don't think handing the ball to them already in FG range (despite Slye) was a great idea. Our offense had not demonstrated the ability to convert on a money down all game. I think at the 50, yes, you make that call. But not at your own 32.

Gilmore played well yesterday. I thought Henderson showed up pretty well also. I like that they are bringing him along slowly. He looked like damaged goods when he got here. Donte got exposed a bit yesterday. Maybe it's just that Ron knew how to do so, but now he's shown the rest of the league. I really like our secondary man. I hope we can at least keep some of them around. Lot of free agents this year and we MUST spend on our OLine. We can't keep them all and fix the line. Oh, and QB.

Our coaches made some mistakes for sure. To me, I thought the biggest mistake we made was going for it on fourth at our own 32. If we punt that away and get a stop, we're now only down 3 and probably have about the same amount of clock left. If you really believe in your defense, you put them on the field and tell them to get the stop.

Yes, we'll probably end up 3 or so games better off than last year. Ask yourself however, how much of this can we place at the feet of a QB not named Cam Newton? I don't blame Rhule for getting QB wrong. That's not true. It is his fault, technically he's to blame. Best to say I don't begrudge him getting it wrong. It happens all over the league. I think Cam has shown his value already. He's not 2015 Cam, but he's an NFL QB. I think he'll be here next year. Given an entire offseason with the team, I think he can be an EXTREMELY effective QB for us. My real concern is what we do about Joe Brady. We need to bring in someone to help him. It's either that or get rid of him entirely. Our offense, despite it's deficiencies, should be more effective. There are some design problems. There are some situational play calling problems. All of that falls on Brady.

So much of this man. We *must* stop opponents from running on us. Burns and Reddick are fantastic at getting after the passer, but someone has got to be stout against the run. Our defense is built just like the Manning Colts defense. Smaller. Faster. Built to play with a lead, built to play with time of possession in their favor. When teams run power at us, we don't have an answer. Cowboys did it - predictably mind you. Washington now did it - also predictably.

I keep telling everyone, this is not our year. It was never meant to be. Rhule turnarounds typically start to pay off in year three. Not year two. Year two is when you start to see the change begin to take hold.

There were some positives today, for sure. Cam looked really good given what he likely knows of our play book. BC looked like he's continuing to grow. Burris looked pretty good in the back. IDGAF what the refs say, that was a good hit.

It's almost like some rookies need time to adjust to the NFL . . . Listen, I don't know if BC is gonna make it in the NFL. I hope he does, of course. One game certainly won't be the turning point. But as bad as our line has been this year, it seems crazy to me that he hasn't gotten more opportunities. Not starts. Just opportunities.