BrianS

We focus so much on Bryce and the offense because of what we gave up and who our coach is, that we sometimes lose sight of the big picture. Bryce deserves some criticism, he also deserves some time to figure it out. So far it doesn't look good, but he's here for at least this season and next, so we must continue to hope he figures it out. HOWEVER. Here is the piece we keep missing: We are one of the worst teams in the league at preventing points. We have a rookie QB who is going to make mistakes and generally be less effective - witness Andy Dalton. In that case, we need our defense to REALLY stand up and be accounted for. And ours is doing just the opposite. Some of that we should have expected. The coaches and team say all the right things about having the personnel they need to implement a 3-4. But the truth is when you switch systems like that, you're going to have problems until you get guys who are adept at playing that system. Oh, and let's not for get this: Three defensive starters on IR, as well as a couple rotational pieces. That's a big deal.

No, he's not. That's part of his problem. Young is a "playmaker", off schedule, out of structure point guard. Go back and look at all the draft profiles. What's happening now is that he's no longer athletic enough to create consistently. He's having to become more accustomed to throwing with anticipation and he's not there yet. In the NFL, you have to make the defense scared of your ability to play from the pocket. No one is scared of Bryce Young playing from the pocket. Stats bear this out; Young is one of the least blitzed QB's in the league - as a rookie! Hopefully he puts it together. His best chance to become "that guy" is to start beating teams from the pocket. That brings more blitzes. Then - hopefully - his chances to become that guy he was in college will show back up.

Irrelevant. What other teams value him as would be far more important in this equation. However, as I said in the other thread, we aren't trading him. Our depth is terrible and you can't tell your team six games in that you're giving up on the season.

I would trade Burns if there were two picks. A 1st this year and a 3rd next year or a 2nd this year and a 1st next year. Perhaps I'd trade Burns for a 1st and a player. After the season, I non-exclusive tag him. Let him go find a contract. If Burns is really "that guy", then someone should be willing to give him a contract and I get my two 1st rounders. If they don't, I tag him and keep tagging him until / unless he suddenly comes to his senses and realizes he's Mike Rucker and not Joey Bosa.

Let him stay where he is this year. He won't make a difference for us this year, and he won't be playing on his current contract next year anyway. His salary goes from 16 million this year to 35 million next year. No way the Raiders swallow that. They save 36 million on their cap next year by designating him post 6/1. Only QB's are worth that money - even as good as he is.

Our biggest hope next season is the dead cap that goes away. We have 55 million in dead cap that should go away unless sheer stupidity strikes and we start cutting / trading expensive assets again. Between that 55 million in dead cap, and another 29 million on IR, 35% of our cap this year is spent on players who aren't playing for us. That's too much to be competitive when the difference between winning and losing is so small. I'm actually a little surprised Sumir Sulieman hasn't been thrown under the bus yet. He's supposed to be our cap expert and frankly our cap has been a nightmare for years now. We keep looking at it during the season thinking "Oh, it's gonna look great next offseason" and yet we get to every offseason and it's still a mess.

Donte is here for the balance of this season, after which he'll be designated a post 6/1 cut. His cap hit next year is far too high, and we've already restructured him once pushing 7.5 million into the three years after his contract expires. But for this year, he's here. With our depth and injury history, we need him.

I'm sorry you missed the point. Haynes is what he is at this point. There is no "potential" to tap into. I'm sorry you've mistaken me for someone who is a Panthers trasher. I am definitely a Panthers realist. I prefer to look at what is really happening; not what any rose colored glasses tell me, and certainly not what the negative masses tell me. Haynes has shown us who he is. He's on his second contract, one which the Panthers had no competition for his signature on. Not even from the Washington Riverboats. He has 1338 snaps in his career, making 83 tackles and 13 sacks. By way of comparison, Mike Rucker was a good - not great - defensive end for us. After five years of his career he had 244 tackles and 36.5 sacks. Charles Johnson - good not great - 153 tackles and 31 sacks after five years. Haynes is the dictionary definition of a JAG. Doesn't mean he can't or won't contribute, just means he's an average NFL player. Every team has them, every team needs them. But you don't lay your hopes on a guy at this stage of their career suddenly becoming a solution. He's just a rotational piece we employ because you can't have a roster full of studs.

Talking about "potential" in a guy who is 29 this season is a little silly. All wishes for a full recovery to the guy, but he's a JAG.

Actually, if they call about Chinn I'd say "Give us back our first".

Sure, there are TONS of factors here. I'm just against the general idea that other QB's in the NFL have "more" of . . . . whatever we think Bryce doesn't have that is causing him to fail. Bryce is causing Bryce to fail. We have to stop making excuses and change something. I am not saying it's fatal. I'm not giving up on Bryce. What I am in favor of is giving him a chance to step back and watch. Some QB's need that! Look at Zach Wilson. I'm not saying he's a success story, by no means. But he's looking better this year. Some players take longer. Did we draft him too high? Maybe. Water under the bridge. I want us to try to fix it. I don't see how continuing to throw him out there will fix it. I'm sure it will fix Chicago's problem, but not Bryce Young's.

Our receivers are SLIGHTLY below average by NFL standards. Not massively, not even considerably. Just slightly. The NFL averages about 3 yards of separation. Our top 5 receivers average 2.74 yards. Is the difference between success and failure: 9 inches of separation? That's the hill we want to take a stand on? Think of it this way. What if our WR corps was George Pickens, Cooper Kupp, DJ Moore, Kyle Pitts and Stefon Diggs. Would Bryce be out of excuses then? I daresay he would be. He would also be throwing to receivers with 2.34 yards of average separation. Far less than we have now. Bryce needs to sit and learn. He's not one of the ones who comes in and lights it up. We have ample evidence of this fact now. That may be ok long term. But there are a lot of guys in the locker room who want to win, and Bryce can't get us there right now.

Disclaimer: Bryce is our guy for at least this year and next. At that point, if he's still the same guy he is today, he'll become our backup QB as we draft our new guy for our new coach. That said . . . To me, this is a terrible argument. "He needs more around him". If a guy is good enough to trade away your future, he better be the guy that elevates the team around him. For the folks who say "He needs time to throw" . . . well here are 11 guys who have been sacked more often, generally hurried more often, blitzed more often and had more balls dropped. Here's another way to look at something similar, look at all these guys with LESS pocket time that Bryce. Now, to be clear, the definition of pocket time here is one I really like. It's time in the pocket before pressure OR before throwing the ball. It puts equal weight on the QB making quick decisions and the line protecting. To all the folks who say "He needs an offense designed around his arm", I'm blacking out all the guys with less than 30 attempts, but using the same sort order as above. Now we're looking at downfield throw numbers. Bear in mind these are ATTEMPTS, not completions. No one in the league has fewer downfield attempts than Bryce. It's not because he has so much less time. It's an impossibility that our staff don't know this. They know it. They understand what it is doing to our offense. Look no further than Andy Dalton. The Red Rifle has nearly as many 20+ throws (7) in ONE GAME as Bryce has all season (8) . . . IN OUR OFFENSE. The bottom line is that Bryce is not NFL ready right now. He needs to sit. He needs to watch Dalton operate the offense. To understand how quickly decisions need to be made. BY still has plenty of time to prove that he can be the guy before heads roll. But the other 50+ guys on that roster deserve a chance to compete.

Here's the problem - that doesn't seem to be the case at all. It's being widely reported now that Frank and his staff were sold on CJ Stroud, but Tepper and wife wanted Young. Most recently it was Rich Eisen talking about it, but there have been others.

The difference isn't as great as you might think. Check it out: Not that it matters, Chinn will never be a 3-4 LB. He would probably be an outstanding 4-3 Will where he can use his speed.

All I know is that the result of the trade for the Chicago Bears is that in 2024 they could have Caleb Williams throwing to DJ Moore and Marvin Harrison Jr. Let that sink in.

Seemed like a fair and balanced take, telling us nothing we didn't already know. Bryce made mistakes. Our O-Line is really struggling. Our receivers aren't very good. We've really got to stop going into seasons with so much dead cap.

For those looking for "insane awesome incompletion" . . . here it is:

So . . . what? He's going to fire himself and his wife?

What seems likely here is that no test can actually simulate the adrenalin of playing NFL football. Stroud appears to be a gamer. Lights go on, he's suddenly much better. A test can't simulate that. Even Stroud himself alluded to it when talking about his experience with the test.

I think what has most of our fanbase frustrated all boils down to two problems. 1. The physical tools. It currently doesn't look as if Bryce has the physical tools to compete in the NFL. He looks a step slow and seems to lack the arm to make all the NFL throws. It's frustrating to watch, and we've got another 2.5 years of it before we'll be in a position to change it. Maybe there is something that can be done on the strength and conditioning side to fix some of it. I don't know. But the physical tools are a glaring problem right now. 2. The playmaking. Or, lack thereof. All we heard during the offseason was how Bryce used his mental acuity to make up for his physical shortcomings. He made plays they said. I'm still waiting to see evidence of this. What's worse, I don't even see evidence that he's trying to make those plays. Do you know who Bryce looks most like right now? PJ Walker. That's terrifying. I hope he figures it out, I hope he overcomes the roadblocks in front of him. I want him to succeed. I just don't know if he can. The next two weeks are going to be brutal. Then the two weeks after that we get to see the other two QB's who he will forever be compared to. I hope Bryce isn't completely broken by the end of it.

Did he really? I'd say no. But you be the judge. Here's his fourth game: His first pass goes for 40 yards.

FIFY.

See, that's the thing right? Do we KNOW that the TE wasn't supposed to stay in . . . or chip . . . ? I'm not in the room, I don't know. We can all speculate. One of them was in the wrong, that's for sure.

If you're not ready for three years of Bryce Young, you may as well check out now. Because he's our guy until at least that point. Likely same with Reich. And Fitts.