Peon Awesome

I'd happily sacrifice Hayden Hurst's 2 catches for 15 yards to give Bryce some breathing room against the pass rush.

The problem in these discourses seem to be that people either overstate the implications of this data or argue that they are 100% meaningless. The truth is obviously somewhere in between. This graph says 2 things: Bryce Young throws to open receivers less than any other QB in the league, but when he does, the throw tends to be accurate. That doesn't mean he's an elite qb, it just means what it means. It clearly beats the alternative that he tends to misfire wildly even when the receiver is open. If so, this would be a lost cause. But at least now you say, "Let's at least try to get him a receiver or two with a proven track record of getting separation." It's still possible we do that and he doesn't process the field appropriately, doesn't spot them or throws it too late after they're covered. But at the very least, we have to try so we know for sure if Bryce can ever be the guy. Finally, those trying to argue the fact that this graph doesn't correlate to who is great or terrible, or for instance to the person saying Bryce is close to Herbert on the graph and Herbert is way better. Of course; the elite qbs aren't the ones that only make throws when receivers are wide open. They are the ones that can make something out of nothing. Herbert is doing a ton more with the 65% of throws the receiver is not open than Bryce is doing with his 75%. So I agree that this is not a graph of eliteness. But that doesn't mean it's meaningless. Bryce may never be a top 10 qb but if he stays a hyperaccurate qb when receivers are open, we have to potential to be a successful team if we can get those receivers open more often.

I have no problem with this. Presumably he wasn't offering any premium picks or the deal would've been done. Trying to low ball for proven wide receivers when that's one of our biggest needs is what I would hope our GM would be doing. People overvalue picks, especially past the 1st round. I imagine we offered like a 3rd for Davante. I don't care if he's 30 years old, I'd rather have a 30 year old Davante Adams than DJ Johnson or Matt Corral. And even if he's going to be way past his prime by the time we are ready to compete, there's value in putting talent around Bryce Young to see definitively what we have with him rather than wonder how much better he might be with all the pieces.

For those saying Sweat is better than Burns, I'm sure a valid argument can be made. But Burns has 2 pro bowl selections to Sweat's zero, playing the same position in the same conference. So there's definitely the perception in the league that Burns is the better player and it's accolades like pro bowl selections that carry more weight at the negotiating table than PFF ratings. So unfortunately I think the starting point at negotiations has to be at least a little higher than Sweat's deal.

They definitely tried to mix it up and call some plays downfield but if anything it only emphasized why our offense has been so heavy on screens and short passes. It seemed like every single successful play downfield came out of a broken play with Bryce scrambling away from pressure. When we actually tried to get a designed pass downfield, the receivers were almost always completely blanketed in coverage, leading to Bryce getting pancaked by a defensive lineman or two while looking for someone to get open.

The other part of this that gives you some hope with Bryce is that he's been steadily playing better despite nothing else around him being noticeably better: ongoing poor offensive line play, same limited receiving corp, unimaginative playcalling. So to think of the potential when those other elements come together (hopefully) inspires some optimism for the future.

This is when you find out if the demons from the Falcons game have been fully exorcised.

NFL players have such a limited window to earn money. Basically their one shot at a big payday is their second contract, where they're not only in their prime but no longer constrained by the rookie salary structure. For Horn to sabotage that and likely sacrifice what could be in the range of $100 million just so he doesn't have to play in Carolina anymore makes zero sense. No one is going to throw a big guaranteed contract to someone who misses 50% of games in their career. A much more logical question might be, are the Panthers being overly cautious in keeping Horn on IR during a seemingly lost year with the added benefit of depressing his 2nd contract value and keeping him fresh for a future where we might have more to play for? I don't think that's likely either but seems a thousand times more plausible than what the original post is asking.

Also about 90% of the cap savings will come next year. I'd rather trade him in the offseason when we can have a plan to replace him through free agency/draft/etc. Trading him now when we basically have no one to replace him and no means to replace him, only to save an extra $1 million compared to trading him after the year is over doesn't make sense. Our games will be even more unwatchable counting on CJ Henderson as our #1 CB.

The overall savings does make it more of a consideration although when I do the math using that link it looks to be around $7.4 million (Roughly $1.4 million saved this year since we're a little over a 3rd of the way through the year, plus $6 million saved in 2024). I guess the point being that outside corners are not easy to replace compared to a WR4 or OLB/safety and given a late draft pick has a better chance than not of being cut within 2 years in the league, we're basically banking on replacing Donte for less than $7 million, which as quickly as contracts are inflating, isn't a foregone conclusion. I'm with Fitterer in that I wouldn't be in a rush to ship him off for a late pick unless we had a built in replacement on the roster and we don't unless Horn suddenly becomes reliably healthy.

The point is that the potential return on Donte wouldn't be worth the loss. Don't be obtuse. Saving $1 million in cap space to get back something like a 6th round pick when we have zero cb depth as is would be an absurd decision.

Buying extra low on a disgruntled receiver who already showed flashes he can still be a bona fide #1 this year? OK. Giving away 2 young defensive pieces or alternatively any meaningful draft capital? Heck no. Barnwell has Davante as worth a 2nd rounder due to his age and massive contract. Would they take our 3rd rounder since it'll basically be a late 2nd? Maybe if the stink gets big enough. I'd definitely consider that to expedite Bryce getting weapons and developing. But more than that? Nah.

It's the epitome of Huddle arrogance to think as a fan you've got your finger on the pulse of the league better than a guy who spends his life analyzing the NFL. If you read the rest of the article the assessments seem pretty on cue. I think we need to acknowledge how much we undervalue our players. DJ Moore and McCaffrey are recent reminders of that.

The article is just trying to assess players' values. He's not factoring in whether the team would actually make the player available. To drive the point home, he has Patrick Mahomes on the list for the Chiefs.

Barnwell trade tiers Good read on which players on every team he thinks would net a 1st round pick or more. His assessments seem quite reasonable. To summarize: Burns - 2 1sts Bryce Young - 1 1st and change Jaycee Horn - 1 1st Has Moton, Ekwonu and Derrick Brown slightly missing the cut. Acknowledges that Bryce hasn't played close to that value but some team would probably give that much off his potential. And Horn is "only" a 1st due to his significant injury history. He has Surtain as worth 2 1sts for what it's worth.

Sadly there's probably no winning in the Burns situation. We either trade him and get picks that have a 99% chance of being less productive than Burns while we watch him put up consecutive 15+ sack seasons on a contender. Or we make him one of the highest paid non-qbs in the NFL, he continues to play solid as a pass rusher without reaching the heights expected of someone taking up 15% of the cap while we lament his overpaid status on a team with so many holes. I'm still leaning towards resigning because I see the crap return on the CMC and DJ trades while they light it up for their new teams and think with a rookie qb, almost no big contracts, and the ease that the cap can be manipulated, we can easily afford to overpay for one of the only pro bowl level players on our thread bare roster.

Finally some logic on the Huddle. The idea that a 1st time offensive coordinator who's never called plays before might get a few weeks to acclimate to the job before being thrust into play calling duties seems pretty logical. And that the bye week, where he'll have 2 weeks to prepare and install his scheme would be the obvious time. I realize the offense couldn't be much worse so far, but last time we took for granted our wunderkind new OC would be immediately ready to transform our offense from jump street, we got Joe Brady. I'm excited to see what Brown will do and it can't be much worse. But he's still working with the same raggedy Oline, meager receiving corp and rookie qb taking more than his fair share of lumps.

If we're playing hypotheticals, it wouldn't even be close to the worst even if Bryce colossaly busts. It's not even in the running just for the last couple years. Trey Lance, Russell Wilson, probably throw in DeShaun Watson unless he completely turns things around. You can even consider a trade like Jamal Adams with 2 1sts for one of the least valuable positions in football who has barely stayed on the field and got a record setting contract l. At least it's defensible to give a lot for the 1st pick for a team desperate to find a qb. The Wilson and Watson ones are important because they hamper their franchises for years with their albatross contracts. Bryce is dirt cheap and we could reboot easily by 2025 if needed. We basically traded an extra 1st and DJ Moore who was getting $20 million per year and not moving the needle with our overall putridness. I honestly think Bryce could definitely pan out and it's stupid to write off a rookie qb after 3 games who has been hampered by some of the worst oline play in the league, the least athletic receiving core and bad playcalling. But I humored you with this response.

I dont love that Burns is one of the only players we have worth a damn. But unfortunately you can't rebuild an entire team from scratch. The salary cap is like $250 million. You fill out your entire team with a bunch of rookie contracts and you basically have to overpay a bunch of cast-off JAG free agents just to hit the salary floor since great players almost never make it to free agency. I'd rather overpay for a proven commodity at the second most important position when we're flush with cash than have a couple more darts to throw at the draft board when our track record has been god awful there.

Did you watch the game? If Bryce held the ball for more than 2 seconds, he got hit or at least majorly pressured. And the majority of the times he had a few seconds, the defense would have everyone covered downfield since we don't have any threats. I can't really fault the inclination to try to get a bunch of quick passes before the pressure comes.

This is also a good warning to those pounding their fists to trade Burns. Is There any doubt we trade Burns and he becomes a perennial 15+sack per year pro bowler for an actually functional organization? And then we draft the next Kony Ealy and DJ Johnson with whatever draft picks we get for him.

It's kind of funny to think we basically traded him for Mingo, DJ Johnson and Jammie Robinson. And not even that exactly cause Mingo was our own 2nd, not the one from SF. I'm not sure he would be transforming this team right now but he would've made a nice safety blanket when Bryce is running for his life every other play.

Is it just me or does it feel like there's a non-zero chance that Pineiro ultimately retires as the greatest kicker in NFL history?

Man this defense has been super impressive. Missing 2 of our best defenders, Horn and Shaq while getting no favors from the offense each week, and they've been really good.

Am I missing something? The guy started 13 of 17 games last year. He missed 2 games from bruised ribs and 2 games when he broke his wrist. Neither injury is prone to recur and he showed no serious signs of lingering issues from the foot fracture that ended his rookie year. I know we all wish he could play every snap but at least there's nothing in there to suggest he's going to continue to miss major time. Hell long term, if the early issues deflate his 2nd contract value, it might be a blessing in disguise cause a healthy Horn has perennial 1st team all pro potential and that is going to cost a fortune.