Average Gain from Big FA Spending Sprees? 0 Wins

[The Huddler]

We will also be contributors in FA we just dont have the ability folks. We will get there.

Why cant people grasp this? We have a credit card debt we have to pay off before we can spend more money. Its thst simple.

The teams that just pile that debt on just fug themselves.

Why would we fug ourselves?

[The Huddler]

We will also be contributors in FA we just dont have the ability folks. We will get there.

Why cant people grasp this? We have a credit card debt we have to pay off before we can spend more money. Its thst simple.

The teams that just pile that debt on just fug themselves.

Why would we fug ourselves?

[cbarrier90]

Ted Ginn and Michael Oher cannot be trusted at this point to sufficiently fill our needs at their respective positions.  I will be shocked if we don't draft someone at each position to hedge our bets, so to speak.  Indeed, I believe that the primary purpose of signing Ginn was for special teams and to provide depth at wide receiver, not to be our answer for a speedy receiver (in terms of moving further into the playoffs).

 

Look at the incumbents at those positions and look at who we signed. Ginn/Oher are much better options than Bersin/Bell going forward. We can talk about playoff matchups when and if we get there, but right now this is a better team on paper than it was to end last season, The purpose of free agency was to have placeholders at those positions of need so we could have the luxury of drafting the best players available on our board without reaching for certain needs.

 

Given that the FA losses are minimal from the team that left the field in Seattle and given the players that are being replaced, on paper IMO we are a better team right now even if the signings aren't the splashy spending spree some might have expected. And this isn't counting the Draft and potential roster cuts elsewhere as we head into next season.

[top dawg]

Ginn can absolutely be trusted.

 

If you think that Ginn fulfills our need for speed at WR, then watch Gettleman acquire someone else via draft.  He is a career returner with decidedly small nondescript contributions at WR for a reason.  Sure you can point to his one season here, but that was hardly earth shattering, and our resulting early exit from the playoffs just screamed "Upgrade!"  Ginn's real value is as an upgrade to special teams, and hopefully his production will not continue falling off from last season.

[top dawg]

Look at the incumbents at those positions and look at who we signed. Ginn/Oher are much better options than Bersin/Bell going forward. We can talk about playoff matchups when and if we get there, but right now this is a better team on paper than it was to end last season, The purpose of free agency was to have placeholders at those positions of need so we could have the luxury of drafting the best players available on our board without reaching for certain needs.

 

Given that the FA losses are minimal from the team that left the field in Seattle and given the players that are being replaced, on paper IMO we are a better team right now even if the signings aren't the splashy spending spree some might have expected. And this isn't counting the Draft and potential roster cuts elsewhere as we head into next season.

 

I agree totally. I just don't think that Gettleman is going to put all his eggs in one basket with these two guys.

[t96]

If you think that Ginn fulfills our need for speed at WR, then watch Gettleman acquire someone else via draft.  He is a career returner with decidedly small nondescript contributions at WR for a reason.  Sure you can point to his one season here, but that was hardly earth shattering, and our resulting early exit from the playoffs just screamed "Upgrade!"  Ginn's real value is as an upgrade to special teams, and hopefully his production will not continue falling off from last season.

 

He wasn't brought in to be our WR. He was brought in as a returner, and will compete at WR. He can definitely be trusted as our return man, and if you don't think that then you must not have seen BB or Philly back there... Sure we'll probably draft somebody but that doesn't mean Ginn can't be trusted. He's old and only on a 2 year deal. We'll bring in young guys to compete and develop no doubt. Maybe we can get Agholor in the 2nd to compete at wideout and eventually become our return guy as well.

[GoobyPls]

Because the GMs that do things for the heck of it simply to win the offseason are the ones that fail in the long run which was the entire point of the article that you obviously didn't read.

 

The teams that are mentioned as SB contenders as a result of offseason moves can make those moves because they have needs at those positions. The Seahawks needed a dynamic red zone threat at receiver and an upgrade to Luke Willson. The Patriots needed a shutdown corner to upgrade their secondary for years which is why they could never get over the hump. They didn't just make those moves out of offseason boredom.

 

Those teams can make those moves because the opportunity to fill those needs came about and they managed their cap effectively enough to have space to complete those moves. What you and all the other "spend at all cost" folks are forgetting is that we are cap challenged because we spent at all costs, as KG has pointed out.^

 

The Panthers primary needs this offseason were speed at WR (Ted Ginn,) a tackle (Michael Oher,) and completely overhauling special teams (Teddy Williams, Ted Ginn, Kurt Coleman, Bruce DeHaven, etc.) If we had the space and the opportunity presented itself (as it did with Greg Olsen years ago) perhaps we would swing a trade or a big signing to combat any of those needs, but the money, etc. just isn't there right now thanks to the mistakes of a GM from which it will take years to recover.

I don't think we can fill our biggest off season needs by bringing in Oher and Ginn. Oher has been under performing for 2 straight seasons and this is the same Ginn that had drop issues in Carolina, the same Ginn who got beat out by a rookie.

 

I mean Cecil Shorts just signed for 3 million a year, IMO he would be a better option than Ginn, same goes for Nate Washington who I doubt will be asking for a lot.

 

[top dawg]

He wasn't brought in to be our WR. He was brought in as a returner, and will compete at WR. He can definitely be trusted as our return man, and if you don't think that then you must not have seen BB or Philly back there... Sure we'll probably draft somebody but that doesn't mean Ginn can't be trusted. He's old and only on a 2 year deal. We'll bring in young guys to compete and develop no doubt. Maybe we can get Agholor in the 2nd to compete at wideout and eventually become our return guy as well.

 

Thomas, didn't I basically say that in the first post you quoted (not to mention I confirmed it in the post afterwards)?  Technically his position is WR, and that's what I was obviously referring to. Hence why I said that he was signed primarily to be our returner. I basically trust him as a returner, though I do note his drop off in production last season as a concern.

[cbarrier90]

I don't think we can fill our biggest off season needs by bringing in Oher and Ginn. Oher has been under performing for 2 straight seasons and this is the same Ginn that had drop issues in Carolina, the same Ginn who got beat out by a rookie.

 

I mean Cecil Shorts just signed for 3 million a year, IMO he would be a better option than Ginn, same goes for Nate Washington who I doubt will be asking for a lot.

 

Again, look at the player being replaced. You're telling me Oher isn't an upgrade over Byron Bell? This is what DG does, taking underperforming players and giving them a place to succeed. He did it with Ginn and Mitchell. Why not Oher?

 

This is also the same Ginn that helped on special teams and who finally found a role in the offense that allowed him to make a big enough impact that he was able to parlay it into a nice contract with the Cardinals. Unfortunately for him, they drafted John Brown who excelled in what was supposed to be Ted Ginn's role, so they had no reason any longer to pay that kind of many to a return specialist.

 

With Ted Ginn you're getting a guy who knows the system and knows his role and will fit right back in from day one without an adjustment period. That year to year familiarity is something that Cam and the offense didn't have last year and it took half the season for everything to start clicking.

[t96]

Thomas, didn't I basically say that in the first post you quoted (not to mention I confirmed it in the post afterwards)?  Technically his position is WR, and that's what I was obviously referring to. Hence why I said that he was signed primarily to be our returner. I basically trust him as a returner, though I do note his drop off in production last season as a concern.

 

man it's late and I didn't read your whole first post, just saw "can't trust Ginn."

[GoobyPls]

Again, look at the player being replaced. You're telling me Oher isn't an upgrade over Byron Bell? This is what DG does, taking underperforming players and giving them a place to succeed. He did it with Ginn and Mitchell. Why not Oher?

 

This is also the same Ginn that helped on special teams and who finally found a role in the offense that allowed him to make a big enough impact that he was able to parlay it into a nice contract with the Cardinals. Unfortunately for him, they drafted John Brown who excelled in what was supposed to be Ted Ginn's role, so they had no reason any longer to pay that kind of many to a return specialist.

 

With Ted Ginn you're getting a guy who knows the system and knows his role and will fit right back in from day one without an adjustment period. That year to year familiarity is something that Cam and the offense didn't have last year and it took half the season for everything to start clicking.

 

Meh

 

I guess Oher is an upgrade over Bell, buts its like replacing something terrible with something mediocre, Mitchell was basically a product of Rivera

 

Even with Ginn here our special teams wasn't that good, our offense was also struggling with him getting reps

 

All I know is guys like Shorts and Washington would have been perfect here and cheap at the same time, I think both would have helped Cam more than what Ginn can.

 

And that whole familiarity thing did play a part, but what got the offense clicking was the fact that they were using Cam like a running back (which is can't be done for a whole season) and Stewart started producing the last part of the season. Statistically speaking the passing game stayed the same.

[jarhead]

I think the current philosophy is building the team through the draft and  get our finances in order. This is a marathon not a sprint which sucks if you are impatient like me. 

[MadHatter]

There are two groups on here right now:

 

Group A:  I want FA's signed and we should just restructure contracts (pushing cap hit into the future) to clear barely enough room to sign someone.  Even though this continues to leave us in cap hell going forward.

 

Group B:  We are trying to get out of the cap hell that Hurney created so that we can make the right FA moves in the future and to be able to sign our upcoming FA's in the future.  We are in year 3 of a 3 year process and everyone should just hold course.  We may not maximize this season, but we will be set up correctly going forward.

 

Group A needs to understand that the Group B methodology is EXACTLY what the Panthers are doing and should stop posting 10 threads a day bitching and whining about how the FO does not care about winning and is cheap.  They believe in winning.....consistently winning and are putting the team in a position to do this.

[MadHatter]

I think the current philosophy is building the team through the draft and  get our finances in order. This is a marathon not a sprint which sucks if you are impatient like me. 

 

Exactly.

 

We ALL want to win now.  However, we still have some housecleaning that needs to be done to not perpetuate the mess we have been in for the past 4-5 years from a cap perspective.