Russell Wilson or Elite Defense

[thefuzz]

​I was referring to some of the numbers thrown around here and elsewhere by fans.

Now if we are talking the current market, sure someone could throw a boat load of cash at him.

Who knows him better than Seattle though? Why did they extend an aging running back first? Maybe they aren't sure he is worth that investment? Who knows.

​You have said that a few times today....why did we extend Olsen before we extended Cam?  Was it because we weren't sure if he was worth the investment?

[Johnny Rockets]

It's always funny to me to see people clamoring about Cam having no weapons in guys like Benjamin and Olsen but then turn around and say that Wilson is surrounded by talent when they couldn't name one receiver he has to throw to beside maybe Doug Baldwin. (You know you can't)

Oh but Lynch is so good!....says the people who claim J Stew is one of the best backs in the game in other threads. 

Oh but Wilson has such a good defense!!!! ....says the people who will state how the Panthers have one of the best defenses in the league in other threads. 

Then those same people can always fall back on saying it's Shula and the O-line I suppose. 

Bottom line is that Cam and Wilson are very good at what they do  - I know it's hard to accept that both those things are possible, but they are. 

 

 

[L-TownCat]

I cant answer that question.  Russ is really good in Seattle but I cant say he would be that good without the elite D or the run game.  

[L-TownCat]

It's always funny to me to see people clamoring about Cam having no weapons in guys like Benjamin and Olsen but then turn around and say that Wilson is surrounded by talent when they couldn't name one receiver he has to throw to beside maybe Doug Baldwin. (You know you can't)

Oh but Lynch is so good!....says the people who claim J Stew is one of the best backs in the game in other threads. 

Oh but Wilson has such a good defense!!!! ....says the people who will state how the Panthers have one of the best defenses in the league in other threads. 

Then those same people can always fall back on saying it's Shula and the O-line I suppose. 

Bottom line is that Cam and Wilson are very good at what they do  - I know it's hard to accept that both those things are possible, but they are. 

 

 

​Good points JR, but there is one thing that Seattle has had over the course of time we are talking about and that is consistency.  The Panthers have had none of that.  One week = Elite play, next week = Jaguars.

[ZeroZeroSeven]

It's always funny to me to see people clamoring about Cam having no weapons in guys like Benjamin and Olsen but then turn around and say that Wilson is surrounded by talent when they couldn't name one receiver he has to throw to beside maybe Doug Baldwin. (You know you can't)

Oh but Lynch is so good!....says the people who claim J Stew is one of the best backs in the game in other threads. 

Oh but Wilson has such a good defense!!!! ....says the people who will state how the Panthers have one of the best defenses in the league in other threads. 

Then those same people can always fall back on saying it's Shula and the O-line I suppose. 

Bottom line is that Cam and Wilson are very good at what they do  - I know it's hard to accept that both those things are possible, but they are. 

 

 

​Jermaine Kearse, Paul Richardson and Ricardo Lockette!  That's all I got.

[Johnny Rockets]

​Jermaine Kearse, Paul Richardson and Ricardo Lockette!  That's all I got.

​That's all Russell Wilson's got also. 

[Mr. Scot]

​That's all Russell Wilson's got also. 

Jimmy Graham

[cbarrier90]

Huddle logic: Cams contract will not tear apart our defense. Wilsons contract will tear apart Seattles defense. 

This logic comes from the fact that the Panthers have built a decent team with major cap issues already. Therefore, via re-allocation of salary to more appropriately align with cap sheets of typical football teams, the team should in theory keep getting better. 

This is what you fellow NFCS'ers fail to understand. The Panthers WEREN'T a good team last year and still won the division and a playoff game. Since Gettleman has been here (20-13-1 overall record) the Panthers have been in rebuilding mode. This contract was the first domino in the "building" process we can finally start. That's why we have been and continue to be a confident if not cocky bunch.

[Mol3m4n]

This logic comes from the fact that the Panthers have built a decent team with major cap issues already. Therefore, via re-allocation of salary to more appropriately align with cap sheets of typical football teams, the team should in theory keep getting better. 

This is what you fellow NFCS'ers fail to understand. The Panthers WEREN'T a good team last year and still won the division and a playoff game. Since Gettleman has been here (20-13-1 overall record) the Panthers have been in rebuilding mode. This contract was the first domino in the "building" process we can finally start. That's why we have been and continue to be a confident if not cocky bunch.

Good point, good post.

[TheRed]

 

​No, it's not.

He will not sign for less than Newton, unless it's fully guaranteed.  They share similar numbers, although you using Cam's rushing TD's and rushing yards is not really my cup of tea, as I prefer to judge a QB by passing stats, as that's what most likely will remain the same or get better.

​You have said that a few times today....why did we extend Olsen before we extended Cam?  Was it because we weren't sure if he was worth the investment?

I didn't say he should sign for less than Newton.

Those numbers include rushing yards and touchdowns for both quarterbacks. Points scored are points scored, why remove them?

Olsen plays a different position, and has not put up 1500 or more yards with 10+ touchdowns running the football each season the past 3 seasons. Greg is damn good, but Lynch is basically the best player at his position. I don't understand why you tried to make a connection there.

 

 

 

[saints4lifeagain]

Considering that Wilson will be getting paid more than Cam, that Seattle is paying RBs like Carolina used to, that they just picked up Graham, and that Seattle's defense is built on mega-stars that are all hitting FA at the same time... yes, it's likely.

Who says Wilson will make more than Cam? The same people that said Cam would get $25M a year? No one knows what Wilson will get. 

Seattle is paying Lynch. Not "running backs". Lynch>>>Stewart/Williams. 

They locked up the 2 biggest stars on defense last offseason. I would like nothing better than to see Seattle fail, but you can't say a huge QB contract won't affect Carolinas elite defense but will affect Seattles. 

[saints4lifeagain]

This logic comes from the fact that the Panthers have built a decent team with major cap issues already. Therefore, via re-allocation of salary to more appropriately align with cap sheets of typical football teams, the team should in theory keep getting better. 

This is what you fellow NFCS'ers fail to understand. The Panthers WEREN'T a good team last year and still won the division and a playoff game. Since Gettleman has been here (20-13-1 overall record) the Panthers have been in rebuilding mode. This contract was the first domino in the "building" process we can finally start. That's why we have been and continue to be a confident if not cocky bunch.

What does any of that have to do with the topic at hand? All I'm saying is, it's quite the double standard to believe that even though the situations are almost identical, with the exception of Seattle being a better team, a QB contract will affect one but not the other. 

Personally, I don't see it affecting either team much. 

[blackcat]

I think they've already shown themselves how successful they can be without a premier QB.  That D and Beast Mode got them the success they've enjoyed the last couple of years.  Don't get me wrong, Wilson is talented, but they have a formula that works, and I don't think that formula has a $100+ million QB handing it off to Lynch in it....we'll see though.  Ultimately, someone will give and some other facet of the team will suffer.

[cbarrier90]

What does any of that have to do with the topic at hand? All I'm saying is, it's quite the double standard to believe that even though the situations are almost identical, with the exception of Seattle being a better team, a QB contract will affect one but not the other. 

Personally, I don't see it affecting either team much. 

​True, I think the demise of the Seahawks is a little over-exaggerated, but at the very least it leaves Schneider in the un-enviable position of having to pick and choose who to keep and who to let walk in the future.

The problem with your premise is you are assuming both the Seahawks and Panthers have the exact same cap situations. I'm no expert on the Seahawks, but I can assure you he was a better cap manager than Marty Hurney. A big part of understanding "Caro-logic" is understanding just how bad this cap situation was with this team starting way back in the post-Arizona-apocalypse offseason. The only national media member who finally took Hurney to task on it was Bill Barnwell following the Thursday night debacle in 2012. This is his article. Rarely would the cap issues ever get mentioned by the national media again as Gettleman was ripped for "ignoring needs," "being cheap," and "releasing Steve Smith."

To make a long story short, the Seahawks are going from paying a 3rd round QB peanuts to upwards of $20 million. The Panthers simply keep their current situation (which continues to improve) in tact as the money that we used to overpay folks like Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams gets moved onto Cam's paycheck.

Not related to the thread but I feel is an important post-script as it relates to your Saints: I look at the Saints and see management making the same desperate, cap-killing moves Hurney made in an attempt to salvage the Delhomme Era after 2008. Obviously we don't know the entire situation, but on the surface there appear to be many parallels.