The #2 we let get away.

[shaqattaq]

The Gettleman angle came directly from the topic starter. 

Snead is looking solid. That doesnt mean he looked like that when here or that he could look like that for us. Maybe he could. Maybe he found some coaches he meshes with. Not every talent is a fit everywhere.

Exactly. Tom (cheating bastard) Brady actually made Brandon LeFell look good, and tried to make something out of him for years. on the flip side, 3 teams gave up on Ginn, and he's making plays for Carolina. Sometimes players and teams just mesh.

[LinvilleGorge]

Agreed, but the post to which I responded there is pure stupidity.

Plus Hurney had some unforgivable draft whiffs. If you look back at who he passed over for who he took, it's mind blowing 

No, I agree with you.  Just look at 2011.  Nailed the Cam pick and then... wow...  WTF happened after that???

And I could be wrong, but I always got the feeling that Cam was JR's pick or if not directly his pick, he was HEAVILY involved in the process.  Basically what I'm saying is that Cam was JR's pick more than he was Hurney's.

[top dawg]

So if I believe we have one of the best GM's in the NFL, and that his talent evaluation is top notch...

 

...I am a "short sniffer"?

 

I think a few things need to be touched here:

• The "wide receiver friendly" offense ran in New Orleans matters, and is a valid argument.
• We have given opportunity to many young players since Gettleman has been here, perhaps mainly for financial reasons, but we still have nonetheless.
• Let's see how Snead and his team do the remainder of the season before we care too much about this.

You're a good poster Top Dawg, but some of your posts in this thread have been borderline "trollish".

 

The "short sniffer" thing is in response to people who always seem to respond like rats to a block of cheese whenever even the hint of Gman making a mistake is uttered in this place. I never said Gman didn't bring in and develop talent. I have always said that I largely support his efforts thus far, especially on the business side, even though I don't agree with EVERYTHING that he does. Personally, I would give him a B overall, but I am a hard task master. I do think that he may have overlooked Snead, but, poo happens, it's not a reflection on his overall job's in my opinion. 

I have made the same point from the beginning. I hate to see Willie Snead being successful, for our division rival no less, when we could have justifiably used his services here. For you to suggest that Snead or any receiver would not be successful statistically or ON A RELATIVE BASIS is just intellectually disingenuous in my opinion. 

Am I premature to suggest that Snead is actually a good receiver at what he does? Perhaps. Am I premature to think that he is more effective than Brown or Bersin? I don't believe so. At the end of the day you shouldn't cherry pick stats and competition in order to downplay a player's success in my opinion.  Sometimes a conclusion is more about insight and vision than just attributing someone's success (or lack thereof) to a system.  Sure, a system matters, but that still doesn't mean that someone that you let go wouldn't do better than what you have IN YOUR SYSTEM. 

If that train of thought is trolling, then it is what it is. Sure I get saucy sometimes, but that's only a reaction, never the action. I hate we let the guy get away. If others can't see that, won't see that, don't believe that, then that's there right, but it's my right to believe otherwise.

 

I

[Mr. Scot]

No, I agree with you.  Just look at 2011.  Nailed the Cam pick and then... wow...  WTF happened after that???

Under Hurney, we had entire drafts bottom out within two to three years on more than one occasion.

And lets not even got started on his contract negotiations...

[top dawg]

That makes little sense, mostly because you, as the one making the initial claim, are required to back up YOUR assertion with sounds stats and data that lead those you are trying to convince to the same conclusion. Not accepting your dataset and proposing alternative datapoints and variables (such as offensive scheme) is perfectly reasonable and does not make one a 'hater', particularly when your conclusion is based on a statistically-insignificant amount of data and a logical, data-driven approach looking at a wider dataset leads to a different conclusion than yours.

The stats should be pretty obvious...there is really no need to go there because you can spin it any which way you like---interpret it however you want. I don't even rely on stats that much, and certainly not more than my eyes. If you want to belittle Snead's accomplishments and bolster up our receivers' lack thereof, then have at it. For the life of me I don't understand why you guys can't say "Yeah, we may have missed out on this one." Noooooo, can't admit that. Hell, you won't even admit that it's a possibility. 

Willie Snead

SEASON	TEAM	GP	REC	TGTS	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LST
2015	NO	5	22	33	381	17.3	63	1	17	1	1
Career		5	22	33	381	17.3	63	1	17	1	1

Philly Brown

SEASON	TEAM	GP	REC	TGTS	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LST
2014	CAR	13	21	36	296	14.1	47	2	12	0	0
2015	CAR	4	6	10	73	12.2	36	1	3	0	0
Career		17	27	46	369	13.7	47	3	15	0	0

Brenton Bersin

RECEIVINGSTATS
SEASON	TEAM	GP	REC	TGTS	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LST
2014	CAR	15	13	20	151	11.6	29	1	11	0	0
2015	CAR	2	5	6	67	13.4	30	0	4	0	0
Career		17	18	26	218	12.1	30	1	15	0	0

[TheRed]

Attempting to compare WR's in our run first offense versus WR's in the Saints pass happy offense without taking the key fundamental differences in each respective offense into account is entirely pointless.

[top dawg]

Attempting to compare WR's in our run first offense versus WR's in the Saints pass happy offense without taking the key differences in each respective offense into account is entirely pointless.

Arguing that Snead IV wouldn't provide us a more legit passing offense is pretty pointless as well.

[TheRed]

Arguing that Snead IV wouldn't provide us a more legit passing offense is pretty pointless as well.

I don't think anyone is arguing with the possibility that Snead might make a difference. What people are arguing is just how much that impact would be in an offense with a different philosophy without an entire offseason/training camp/preseason to learn, and develop with the offense.

You cannot have a legitimate hypothetical discussion about this while ignoring those factors.

[top dawg]

Hell, in the greater scheme of things isn't all of this pointless? 

Oh, excuse me, some of y'all's point is to get pie and exclaim your hallelujas in the amen corner. You know, the thing that all these people like to do here, and that which make's the eagles outside of the cage wrong because they don't squawk the squawk like the other parrots.  

This cage needs to be rattled every now and then. 

LOL 

[TheRed]

It's amazing just how much of a dick you've been in your own thread on this just because not everyone is showering your arguments with praise.

Maybe next time just don't make a thread if you're going to act like a gigantic baby because everyone doesn't agree with you.

[top dawg]

I don't think anyone is arguing with the possibility that Snead might make a difference. What people are arguing is just how much that impact would be in an offense with a different philosophy without an entire offseason/training camp/preseason to learn, and develop with the offense.

You cannot have a legitimate hypothetical discussion about this while ignoring those factors.

Hell, I am not ignoring anything, just correctly stating that you can use the same/different arguments about any player who finds himself in a different situation. To say that Snead wouldn't have thrived in our offense---if nothing else on a relative basis---is more of an overreach than saying that he would have been Philly Bersin. That is what's illegitimate. You're bastardizing the kid's drive, determination, talent and relative success.

[tiger7_88]

This guy could be working the fryolator 3rd shift at Wendy's along side Marvin McNutt in a year for all we know.

Looks to me like top dawg busted a McNutt all over Snead.

[KSpan]

The stats should be pretty obvious...there is really no need to go there because you can spin it any which way you like---interpret it however you want. I don't even rely on stats that much, and certainly not more than my eyes. If you want to belittle Snead's accomplishments and bolster up our receivers' lack thereof, then have at it. For the life of me I don't understand why you guys can't say "Yeah, we may have missed out on this one." Noooooo, can't admit that. Hell, you won't even admit that it's a possibility. 

Willie Snead

SEASON	TEAM	GP	REC	TGTS	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LST
2015	NO	5	22	33	381	17.3	63	1	17	1	1
Career		5	22	33	381	17.3	63	1	17	1	1

Philly Brown

SEASON	TEAM	GP	REC	TGTS	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LST
2014	CAR	13	21	36	296	14.1	47	2	12	0	0
2015	CAR	4	6	10	73	12.2	36	1	3	0	0
Career		17	27	46	369	13.7	47	3	15	0	0

Brenton Bersin

RECEIVINGSTATS
SEASON	TEAM	GP	REC	TGTS	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LST
2014	CAR	15	13	20	151	11.6	29	1	11	0	0
2015	CAR	2	5	6	67	13.4	30	0	4	0	0
Career		17	18	26	218	12.1	30	1	15	0	0

I don't really have anything else to say, as I've made my argument more than once. Your straw-man argument about belittling Snead and building up Carolina's receivers is baseless, as I completely agree that Snead has had a better 5-game stretch than almost every Panthers receiver. However, your dataset is so limited that no definitive comment can be made beyond that.

Your eye-test comment and comments about offensive scheme being irrelevant are also flawed at best, as scheme makes a huge difference. By your logic, Doug Martin and his 405 yards prove he's a better RB than Demarco Murray and his 130, an assertion that completely ignores the differences in scheme between TB and Philadelphia.

I have also said that we very well could have 'missed out' on Snead, but won't know that until 2017 or so, so I am saying 'yeah, we may have missed out on this one.' You, however, are already saying that we DID miss out, which is indefensible - 5 games in a guy's first season in the NFL, or any player in any sport for that matter, is worthless for projecting future performance. 

[top dawg]

It's amazing just how much of a dick you've been in your own thread on this just because not everyone is showering your arguments with praise.

Maybe next time just don't make a thread if you're going to act like a gigantic baby because everyone doesn't agree with you.

I am neither acting like a crybaby or a dick. I have only responded.  Unlike some of you, I don't have to have everyone agree with me or make smartass comments in order to win some type of popularity contest. In the grand scheme of things, I could give a fug about my argument being praised you twit. I respect other people's opinions as long as they are supported by rational thoughts.