Josh Norman better than Richard Sherman? David Newton says yes.

[CRA]

Firstly, half is different than have. 

Secondly, going by your oversimplified, play-doh-level-of-comprehension dichotomy, no cornerback was lockdown until he was. You don't just wake up one day and people don't throw at you. Sherman and revis were both getting picks even at their height. Does that mean they weren't lockdown because they were being thrown to? Or that they were lockdown, but teams weren't throwing to them, but they were effectively playing the other side of the field?

Or does lockdown cornerback to you mean the players literally becomes characters from the early 90s Nickelodean british show The Tomorrow People where they can teleport instantaneously, so that they can simultaneously not be thrown at while still making interceptions?

in lieu of trying to answer this, furling your brow in frustration at all my polysyllabic words, do us all a favor and mash the clicker button where the letters make the words LOGOUT 

First, iphones do what they do.  I ain't going back to correct an auto-correct.  But I can see based on your "let's address a misplaced word, insert snark, you better leave approach to message board "discussion"......that you don't want to actually talk about Norman but just want a praise thread.  That's cool.  There is a place for that.  I never have done well in those.  Have at it.

But to address your post, lockdown/shutdown is a bogus word b/c all CBs get beat and thrown on.  So bringing up a Deion Sanders got thrown on too therefore Norman can be in that tier is bogus.

Nnamdi was a lockdown corner in Oakland.  He earned it.  A legit island CB.  Out of recent CB play Nnamdi in Oakland is the best pure CB play seen in the last 2 decades IMO.  Pure man on man coverage CB.   Revis has displayed the 2nd best coverage ability.  Norman does fall in the Sherman mold more b/c the system they play in is part of their success (apples and oranges in regards to their systems but their systems are part of what aids them greatly)

Sherman and Revis have both drastically dictated the play of GREAT QBs.  Josh Norman to date has NOT.  Once he does....then you can throw him in that tier.  Simple and plain.

 

 

 

 

[CRA]

 

Might I refer you to...

 

Source

Josh Norman will stop anybody, he doesn't care who you are. Several QBs who go after Sherman are quite successful actually. Sherman also has better support in the secondary as mentioned by other posters before me.

I think you can go after Sherman w/ the right talent.  If you have the right talent basically any CB can be beat.

as for that fantasy football article, yes, I don't disagree that the LOB can be thrown on.  They can.  They actually will give you a lot of plays....and if you can break a tackle can make some big plays.   There defense in a lot of ways in one that looks to capitalize on mistakes of a passing game.

 

[SCP]

David Newton ruined this for me.

[CRA]

Link to entire Rivera post-game transcript: http://blackandbluereview.com/panthers-jaguars-week-1-ron-rivera-transcript/

Here is every mention of Norman:

How do you think the defense played after Luke went out?

"I thought Josh Norman did a great job. With the interception, he read that very cleanly and got in position to make a play."

Josh Norman's seemed to provide a spark?

"It's something we work on, we do work on punching the ball out and Josh Norman made a terrific play as far as that was concerned and we recovered it and set the offense up with an opportunity to score and on the interception, he read that nicely and made a good break."

Reaction after Norman's pick-6?

"All of a sudden somebody steps up and makes a play and next thing you know the energy level picked up. Defense and offense energy picked up. We saw some positive things after that. I was pleased with what we did after. I think the bottom line is that we have to stop waiting for everybody else to make a play and just go make a play."

Seriously man, everything you said in that post was either made up or flat or wrong. Stop making stuff up, there's no reason for it and it doesn't contribute to the discussion.

He wasn't wrong. 

You are posting the post game transcript.  It likely was from his Monday presser.....where he watched the film.  He talked about dirty eyes, Norman making his stomach unsettled in games, broke down the pick 6 and why the QB was looking at Norman to begin with b/c of his error the play prior, etc.

there is video on panthers.com

[Daddy_Uncle]

The best QB in the NFL LITERALLY refused to throw at Sherman for an entire game last year. Sherman literally closed off a section of the field from the Packers gameplan.

Josh Norman ain't on that level yet

yeah because we are a smaller market and josh doesnt get blown off by the media like Sherman. Just have to look at the stats

[CRA]

yeah because we are a smaller market and josh doesnt get blown off by the media like Sherman. Just have to look at the stats

what does market size have to do with altering how elite QBs like Brady, Rodgers, etc play?

Norman has yet to do that.  Sherman has done it.

 

[GRWatcher]

@ electro's horse    Pie just for the Tomorrow People reference.

[t96]

eh, we have seen this all before....l don't mesh well in the "hey, let's all only look at the positives about player X and bash any football thoughts outside of it" threads.

even Ron Rivera has addressed what teams look at when throwing at Norman, mentioned how he makes his stomach uneasy, etc.  That is b/c he is a playmaking CB and not a shutdown one at this stage.  But people are in the Norman is the best CB in the NFL mode and anything discussed about his game that isn't positive the "mob mentality" comes in claiming people are hating on him.

 

 

You've been unable to backup any of the nonsense you post with substantial evidence. Someone else here tries to defend you on the last page and SixMileDrive did the work for me and proved it all to be complete and utter nonsense. Josh hasn't been "gambling" this year, or the second half of last year. And you called him a playmaking corner but not a shutdown corner, when he's actually been shutting down opposing WRs better than anybody else in the league right now. And don't talk about the QBs because he's gone against great WRs who've gotten it done against other teams despite their QBs. Hopkins is the leading receiver in the league right now and Josh held him to just 40 yards and no first downs on 12 targets. Josh has been dominating in every single aspect of the game, and doing it better than any other corner in the league and you still won't give him credit. Just stay out of the Norman discussion man it just makes you look like a fool.

[t96]

He wasn't wrong. 

You are posting the post game transcript.  It likely was from his Monday presser.....where he watched the film.  He talked about dirty eyes, Norman making his stomach unsettled in games, broke down the pick 6 and why the QB was looking at Norman to begin with b/c of his error the play prior, etc.

there is video on panthers.com

http://blackandbluereview.com/panthers-jaguars-week-1-ron-rivera-transcript/

 

Try again. In fact in the week 2 transcript he specifically said Josh hasn't done anything to make his stomach upset this year.

[RelaxImaPro]

Link to entire Rivera post-game transcript: http://blackandbluereview.com/panthers-jaguars-week-1-ron-rivera-transcript/

Here is every mention of Norman:

How do you think the defense played after Luke went out?

"I thought Josh Norman did a great job. With the interception, he read that very cleanly and got in position to make a play."

Josh Norman's seemed to provide a spark?

"It's something we work on, we do work on punching the ball out and Josh Norman made a terrific play as far as that was concerned and we recovered it and set the offense up with an opportunity to score and on the interception, he read that nicely and made a good break."

Reaction after Norman's pick-6?

"All of a sudden somebody steps up and makes a play and next thing you know the energy level picked up. Defense and offense energy picked up. We saw some positive things after that. I was pleased with what we did after. I think the bottom line is that we have to stop waiting for everybody else to make a play and just go make a play."

Seriously man, everything you said in that post was either made up or flat or wrong. Stop making stuff up, there's no reason for it and it doesn't contribute to the discussion.

I'm not making poo up, you're just being a blind homer right now.  I don't know how many times I have to say this:  I love Josh Norman.  I was a Norman supporter BEFORE he blew up and everyone jumped on his jock.  That doesn't mean I have to be a fanboy that can't acknowledge some of the few potential flaws in his game.  Seriously, go back and re read my damn post again, it was overall pretty damn positive of him.  Full of compliments.  You pick out one tiny thing I said, then go all out and dig up some cherry picked quotes in an attempt to create some counterpoint to a point I was never making in the first place.  Why'd you leave out the quote in question that I referenced in my original post, I wonder?

The interview is out there where Rivera mentioned what I just referenced, and the film is out there as well.  I'm not wasting my time to find it for you, but it's there.  I'm sure over half the damn Huddle remembers it, because it's been a running joke ever since.  That huge gain before the half that set the Jags up for scoring?  That was on Norman, and it was definitely more than 15 damn yards, regardless of what PFF says.  I personally watched the All-22 of the game myself as well, like I do for many of them.

So step off.  You can still be a fan without being a blind fanboy and acknowledge a player is great while still having a potential weakness... and even then his "weakness" is also a potential strength.  Hence why I called it a double-edged sword.

[CRA]

You've been unable to backup any of the nonsense you post with substantial evidence. Someone else here tries to defend you on the last page and SixMileDrive did the work for me and proved it all to be complete and utter nonsense. Josh hasn't been "gambling" this year, or the second half of last year. And you called him a playmaking corner but not a shutdown corner, when he's actually been shutting down opposing WRs better than anybody else in the league right now. And don't talk about the QBs because he's gone against great WRs who've gotten it done against other teams despite their QBs. Hopkins is the leading receiver in the league right now and Josh held him to just 40 yards and no first downs on 12 targets. Josh has been dominating in every single aspect of the game, and doing it better than any other corner in the league and you still won't give him credit. Just stay out of the Norman discussion man it just makes you look like a fool.

what evidence u want? That is the thing...we people get on these player kicks nothing about them can be said.  Been here too long.

Listen closer to Rivera.  He basically says it in his own words.  Norman is improving.  But he gambles too much and exposes us to be considered a lockdown guy.  If he isn't unpredictable why is Rivera's stomach in knots with him? Why is Rivers pointing out his gambles in relation to his big plays?

People want certain guys to be X and bash posters of they post along those lines.  Claiming Norman is a playmaker who gambles is NOT bashing Norman.  It is what he is.   Hell, a CB who gambles for the big play and exposes us might actually be BETTER for is this year than a more disciplined one.  We need big plays b/c our offense is so limited.

If Josh wins us 4 and cost us 2 gambling .....and that is what helps us make the post season it will be well worth it.   I can take the bad if the good is worth it.  

[t96]

what evidence u want? That is the thing...we people get on these player kicks nothing about them can be said.  Been here too long.

Listen closer to Rivera.  He basically says it in his own words.  Norman is improving.  But he gambles too much and exposes us to be considered a lockdown guy.  If he isn't unpredictable why is Rivera's stomach in knots with him? Why is Rivers pointing out his gambles in relation to his big plays?

People want certain guys to be X and bash posters of they post along those lines.  Claiming Norman is a playmaker who gambles is NOT bashing Norman.  It is what he is.   Hell, a CB who gambles for the big play and exposes us might actually be BETTER for is this year than a more disciplined one.  We need big plays b/c our offense is so limited.

If Josh wins us 4 and cost us 2 gambling .....and that is what helps us make the post season it will be well worth it.   I can take the bad if the good is worth it.  

Why don't you start by posting exact Rivera quotes since you keep bringing hm up even though you've been proven wrong about his comments twice now.

[Mojo]

We're 4-0.  Norman has been playing fantastic.  

Is he better than Sherman? Yet to be determined.

Is he currently playing better than Sherman?  Absolutely.

Is he one of the best corners in the league right now?  Absolutely.

Point blank period end of story.  

Has he made mistakes?  Sure.  Have the best cbs in the league made mistakes? Absolutely.

You can't expect a mistake free career that's just insanity.  Hopkins leads the nfl in receiving yards and was shutdown by Norman.  Pretty ringing endorsement.  

Oh...wait it's because of the pass rush right?  Please.

[Mojo]

CRA nothing against you but you should be tired of singing this tune by now.