Gettlemens Negotiation with Norman

[panthers55]

On 4/20/2016 at 7:37 PM, CRA said:

Everyone has their own pros and cons.  At one point Hurney looked like an awesome GM.  Now, I am not saying Dave is bad....but we might now have our first look at a flaw of Dave's....

for the most part...Gettlmen has been viewed has half man, half god, half possible centaur.   A man that can do no wrong.  The golden touch that everyone else should be jealous of....

but Dave just let Carolina groom an All Pro corner and let him walk out the door.  If Hurney pulled this off at the end of his tenure it would be the biggest thing he was blasted for despite many options to look at.   Do not like.  IMO even if you know you can't work a long term deal you rent him with the tag for this year 

No you don't rent him at 14 million for one year unless you think you are one player away from a Superbowl which Gettleman said he didn't believe in. He wanted a long term deal with Norman so his first year cap hit could be 7-8 million so he can sign Short. Since Norman wanted 15-16 million a year that would make Josh, Newton, Kalil and Stewart taking up right at 1/3 of the cap. 

Didn't Hurney do that with Peppers? How did that work out.

[CRA]

9 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

No you don't rent him at 14 million for one year unless you think you are one player away from a Superbowl which Gettleman said he didn't believe in. He wanted a long term deal with Norman so his first year cap hit could be 7-8 million so he can sign Short. Since Norman wanted 15-16 million a year that would make Josh, Newton, Kalil and Stewart taking up right at 1/3 of the cap. 

we went to the Super Bowl last season.... and Norman played a pretty big role.  Do you think that team last season if kept together can make another run?  I do.

that is worth a one year rental if you are a team that legitimately thinks they can win it all.  Everyone claims it, we are one of the few that could.

I got no interest in talking about a Norman contract, never advocated that.  Only making a Super Bowl run in 2016 renting him for that and that alone.

[CRA]

On April 21, 2016 at 8:34 AM, Snake said:

If you look at it logically and not emotionally like you are you can see he made the right move. There have been plenty of teams with multiple All Pro players that get to pick first in the draft and sit home in January. Dave is building a team and sustaining what got us to a Superbowl. Norman clearly proved to Dave he was not going to be happy with what he was getting from Carolina so Dave did josh a favor and released him. Dave could have forced him to sign but that never ends well and our team will be better off without a unhappy Norman. 

logically, there is no way to know what the right move is...today.  Next season we will have an idea if I was or not.

also will depend what you are looking at next season (short term or long term impact). We could take a step back on D and it could cost us but maybe people care more about long term...which is fine.  I rarely am of a now mindset but my fan gut wants an all in for 2016.

[panthers55]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

 

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

we went to the Super Bowl last season.... and Norman played a pretty big role.  Do you think that team last season if kept together can make another run?  I do.

that is worth a one year rental if you are a team that legitimately thinks they can win it all.  Everyone claims it, we are one of the few that could.

I got no interest in talking about a Norman contract, never advocated that.  Only making a Super Bowl run in 2016 renting him for that and that alone.

And Gettleman thinks we can go there without him and thinks your one player away theory is crap.  Which one to believe...............??????????

Sorry, based on results, I have to go with Dave

 

[CRA]

In isn't overly complicated.  I wanted an all in for 2016.  I think an all in shot for 2016 was worth it.  Gamble on Norman and see if we can make back to back runs.

Norman walking hurts out 2016 defense  

Dave isn't thinking like that.  Dave wants to be a NE team that has good shot every year.

I am in now mode as a fan.  Nothing wrong with that 

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

And Gettleman thinks we can go there without him and thinks your one player away theory is crap.  Which one to believe...............??????????

Sorry, based on results, I have to go with Dave

 

Again, I am not going to spend time arguing cliche talk.

if we have a Cam or Luke or Josh and then don't the next season for whatever reason....that should have an impact negatively on the following season.

again, Dave is looking big picture.  I have voiced I understand that but as a fan I wanted an all in attempt at a repeat Super Bowl.

I have always been consistent with my Cam/Carolina views....I think we are curtently in the best window to win with Cam. I have always thought years 5-8 of his career would be his most dominant.  

[CRA]

Well it is draft time 55. I look forward to hearing your thoughts in some threads.  We oddly seem to agree on those thoughts year to year 

[Jeremy Igo]

I have always loved Mr Deeds. So many funny moments. 

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

In isn't overly complicated.  I wanted an all in for 2016.  I think an all in shot for 2016 was worth it.  Gamble on Norman and see if we can make back to back runs.

Norman walking hurts out 2016 defense  

Dave isn't thinking like that.  Dave wants to be a NE team that has good shot every year.

I am in now mode as a fan.  Nothing wrong with that 

Absolutely nothing wrong with that stance as long as you are a fan and not in a position to make any decisions regarding personnel.

[panthers55]

24 minutes ago, CRA said:

Again, I am not going to spend time arguing cliche talk.

if we have a Cam or Luke or Josh and then don't the next season for whatever reason....that should have an impact negatively on the following season.

again, Dave is looking big picture.  I have voiced I understand that but as a fan I wanted an all in attempt at a repeat Super Bowl.

I have always been consistent with my Cam/Carolina views....I think we are curtently in the best window to win with Cam. I have always thought years 5-8 of his career would be his most dominant.  

Dave thinks your thoughts on having windows of opportunity to win is a stupid notion as well. If he does his job well, the window remains open like in NE as you mentioned. I don't think Gettleman thought Josh wouldn't sign his tender and work on a deal since he wanted to be here. There are a number of vets  who took less to be here. I guess Josh has to go away from home to find out how good he had it here. With this being his only big payday the money is going to be a big motivator. We will see what he values soon.

 

[panthers55]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

Well it is draft time 55. I look forward to hearing your thoughts in some threads.  We oddly seem to agree on those thoughts year to year 

The later we pick, the harder it is to know who will be there and what makes sense. But as you know, I always have an opinion.

[Snake]

4 hours ago, CRA said:

logically, there is no way to know what the right move is...today.  Next season we will have an idea if I was or not.

also will depend what you are looking at next season (short term or long term impact). We could take a step back on D and it could cost us but maybe people care more about long term...which is fine.  I rarely am of a now mindset but my fan gut wants an all in for 2016.

Untrue,  Dave and Ron have set up this team to win with pressure not CB play. Norman is a really good CB but we also have 2 more really good cbs. Depth is a concern but it's always a concern somewhere. Also with the new PF rules Josh's loose cannon personally could be a concern. I feel losing CJ would have been worse than josh but I do hate to see him go as a fan because he was exciting. 

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, Snake said:

Untrue,  Dave and Ron have set up this team to win with pressure not CB play. 

we didn't generate good pressure last season.   People keep referencing 2013 as the example, but the 2013 team was equipped with possibility the best (or one of the best) DE duos in the NFL that season.  That 2013 team generated pressure.  The 2013 team was set up that way.  The 2015 team wasn't.   Last season, we won b/c we played solid at all levels...and that made us good.  Complimentary D.  Front definitely didn't make the D last season...Gettlemen keeps talking about that b/c that is what he ideally wants.  He didn't have last that last year.