Norman was not a production of a system

[SurvivalSloth]

2 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

The Seahawks and Patriots secondaries were vastly superior to their front 7.

 

 

http://es.redskins.com/forum/10-the-stadium

Clearly since Josh Norman was our entire team last year, you can go pull for him in DC. I can't read any of these threads without you griping.  You're acting like the rest of our team sucks and we shouldn't even try because we lost one player. Might as well pack it in before the draft. Doom and gloom.

[GoobyPls]

Just now, SurvivalSloth said:

http://es.redskins.com/forum/10-the-stadium

Clearly since Josh Norman was our entire team last year, you can go pull for him in DC. I can't read any of these threads without you griping.  You're acting like the rest of our team sucks and we shouldn't even try because we lost one player. Might as well pack it in before the draft. Doom and gloom.

Nope I'm just disproving myths, meanwhile everyone else is bringing up the money side, since they have no counter argument for this whole system thing. Have you ever even watched a second of game tape?

[SurvivalSloth]

I watched all 19 games last year and the games he started last year in '14. Is the guy good? Yeah. But the way you're talking, we're destined to finish 3rd in the South because our team has been decimated by the loss of one player. I'd rather take that money and lock up KK, Star, and KB...because...you know...THIS IS A TEAM SPORT!

Give me 7 studs on a team for multiple years instead of one overpaid rental for 1 year.

[GoobyPls]

16 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Josh is a great zone corner but he wasn't the system. That is plain stupid. He didn't even cover the number 1 receiver all over the field. You could easily play around him by simply shifting your main receiver to the other side of the field or put him in the slot. He played the same side of the field almost exclusively in zone not man. That is our system. It remains to be seen if he can play in a man scheme every down. But for our team we didn't need to pay a guy 15 million to cover a zone. Not half the field, not taking away a receiver a day but simply his zone whether we play cover 3, cover 2 or another variation. That is why we let him go. We play a system and fit players to our scheme not adapt what we do for a player. If you don't know that then there is no reason to even have this discussion because you may see what happens but have no idea what you are looking at.

Sign up to All-22 look up the Falcons, Texans, Cowboys and Colts game. Comeback and report to me if you think he doesn't follow the number 1.

 

 

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

2 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Nope I'm just disproving myths, meanwhile everyone else is bringing up the money side, since they have no counter argument for this whole system thing. Have you ever even watched a second of game tape?

panthers55 posted a good rebuttal i think

your OP is full of weasely language anyway

Our pass rush was horrendous the first half of the season, we went 11 quarters quarters without a legit sack for a stretch of the season

how on earth do you define a "legit sack"?  sounds like something you can just sort of make up as you go to fit whatever point you're trying to make.  that'd be like me asserting that none of josh's interceptions were "legit" or he went x quarters without legitimately shutting down whatever receiver.  that's way too subjective to be taken seriously.

I don't think people understand how hard it is to find a CB of Norman's caliber, pass rushers are a dime of dozen

this is just laughable.  no they aren't, and top pass rushers get paid more than top cornerbacks for that reason.  someone like von miller is more valuable than josh norman.  a pass rusher who is a threat to be disruptive on every dropback is much harder to scheme around than an elite zone corner. 

[GoobyPls]

2 minutes ago, SurvivalSloth said:

I watched all 19 games last year and the games he started last year in '14. Is the guy good? Yeah. But the way you're talking, we're destined to finish 3rd in the South because our team has been decimated by the loss of one player. I'd rather take that money and lock up KK, Star, and KB...because...you know...THIS IS A TEAM SPORT!

Give me 7 studs on a team for multiple years instead of one overpaid rental for 1 year.

I still think we win the division but getting to the SB will be tough, I had us going 13-3 now it's more like 11-5 being generous.

 

Here you going changing the subject, that one year rental wasn't gonna effect anybody else's contract, so idk where your getting at. This whole notion that he was gonna sit out games is the biggest load of sht I've ever heard, it sounds like a built in excuse to release him.

[Verge]

25 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

The Seahawks and Patriots secondaries were vastly superior to their front 7.

 

 

M.Bennett
B.Mebane 
R.Bryant 
C. Avril 

B.Irvin. 
B.Wagner
K.Wright

 

 

Not exactly a weak front seven, in fact, it probably won them the super bowl.

 

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

which falcons game should we be looking at?

julio jones had like 180 receiving yards in the second one you know.  i know he had that big highlight reel play with kuechly in coverage but he had 88 yards in the first one too.

[SurvivalSloth]

2 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

I still think we win the division but getting to the SB will be tough, I had us going 13-3 now it's more like 11-5 being generous.

 

Here you going changing the subject, that one year rental wasn't gonna effect anybody else's contract, so idk where your getting at. This whole notion that he was gonna sit out games is the biggest load of sht I've ever heard, it sounds like a built in excuse to release him.

Actually, it has a lot of potential to affect our other contracts. With the cap projected to go up again at the end of next season, by signing Star, KK, and KB to contracts now, it leaves us with even more cap space in 2017.

It's the same thing DG did with Cam. We have a $100 million QB locked up for the future and we're still sitting with $30+ million in cap space. DG has this team set up for continued, long term success. We're not just gonna be a flash in the pan.

[GoobyPls]

17 minutes ago, The NFL Shield At Midfield said:

panthers55 posted a good rebuttal i think

your OP is full of weasely language anyway

 

 

how on earth do you define a "legit sack"?  sounds like something you can just sort of make up as you go to fit whatever point you're trying to make.  that'd be like me asserting that none of josh's interceptions were "legit" or he went x quarters without legitimately shutting down whatever receiver.  that's way too subjective to be taken seriously.

 

 

this is just laughable.  no they aren't, and top pass rushers get paid more than top cornerbacks for that reason.  someone like von miller is more valuable than josh norman.  a pass rusher who is a threat to be disruptive on every dropback is much harder to scheme around than an elite zone corner. 

The first 3 games of the season not including the 4th quarter of the Jax game we didn't record a sack outside of a fumbled snap.  Our pass rush was laughably bad.

 

Where did I bring up value, I said they are harder to find. The panthers have had multiple pro bowl caliber pass rusher now try to remember the last pro bowl corner we had not named Norman, that's what I thought, you can't.

[GoobyPls]

5 minutes ago, SurvivalSloth said:

Actually, it has a lot of potential to affect our other contracts. With the cap projected to go up again at the end of next season, by signing Star, KK, and KB to contracts now, it leaves us with even more cap space in 2017.

It's the same thing DG did with Cam. We have a $100 million QB locked up for the future and we're still sitting with $30+ million in cap space. DG has this team set up for continued, long term success. We're not just gonna be a flash in the pan.

You got to be kidding me, Kelvin's contract really? He's in his third season and most likely will get tagged with the 5th year option, Star will get tagged with the 5th year option also. Short was the only we had to worry about, and we had more than enough space not taking into account Stewart will finally be off our book.

 

No reason we couldn't rent Norman this season, the same way NE rented Revis and Browner. 

[panthers55]

41 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

I don't have to look film all I have to do is look at the number 1 receiver stats. In the second Atlanta game for example Jones  had 9 catches for 178 yards. Sure tell me they weren't against Norman and that is my point. It was easy to scheme around Norman by moving Jones around. Every team can figure that out totally negating his 15 million impact. How about OBJ in the second half. Same thing same result. He is a great zone corner not a great shut down corner. Just because you watch film doesn't mean you know what you are seeing. You see what you expect to see just like the rest of us

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

11 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

The first 3 games of the season not including the 4th quarter of the Jax game we didn't record a sack outside of a fumbled snap.  Our pass rush was laughably bad.

 

Where did I bring up value, I said they are harder to find. The panthers have had multiple pro bowl caliber pass rusher now try to remember the last pro bowl corner we had not named Norman, that's what I thought, you can't.

fair enough on the first point

scarcity is an inherent driver of value and you're splitting hairs with that statement.  maybe elite pass rushers aren't as hard to find at least numbers-wise but saying they're a "dime a dozen" is ridiculous given what they get paid and the lengths GMs will go to to get them.  "dime a dozen" implies they're cheap which they're absolutely not.  the highest paid defensive players in the NFL are almost always pass rushers or guys like suh that are dominant interior linemen with pass rushing skills in addition to other things.

[panthers55]

6 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

You got to be kidding me, Kelvin's contract really? He's in his third season and most likely will get tagged with the 5th year option, Star will get tagged with the 5th year option also. Short was the only we had to worry about, and we had more than enough space not taking into account Stewart will finally be off our book.

 

No reason we couldn't rent Norman this season, the same way NE rented Revis and Browner. 

I also explained this in another thread. We could afford him on a long term deal because his first year cap would be 7 or 8 million not almost 14. He wasn't worth tying up that much on a one year deal. It totally limits what we can do. Gettleman said as much. So you saying the opposite with no insider knowledge and no experience is hardly convincing.