Another thread about the football man we just drafted

[electro's horse]

Vernon Butler is a fuging monster. He's the exact kind of insane poo wrecker that GMs around the league covet. While there's a lot of technique involved in the position, at the end of the day, it's one man pushing into another. Belichick gets all the credit for how well he utilizes players, putting them in the best position to succeed blah blah blah. In 2007, he used the talents of a bunch of random wide receivers to put together maybe the greatest offense the NFL had ever seen. The Giants were unimpressed, and used four massive defensive lineman to blow up their cute little plans. Our dudes are bigger, stronger, and faster. Scheme around that, bitch.

Gettleman worked in that front office, and it shows. All he drafts are mutants. 

It is really interesting how prospects develop

Thanks to the internet, we can see very easily just how far the number 30 pick in the NFL draft, taken by the defending NFC Champion and presumptive favorite to repeat, has come. Look at who recruited this kid.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/6000

Just a couple of regional schools. Mississippi had interest, but nothing developed. La Tech has a pretty good program for a small school. There's obviously no shortage of talent in Louisiana. But Butler is the definition of a late bloomer. The NFL loves these guys. Football at every level until you get to the pros is all about when you got big, essentially. Think back to middle school or high school. The biggest kid was the best, it's just the nature of the sport. If you went and told Les Miles that Butler was going to put on 30 fuging pounds (and it ain't fat) between the beginning and end of his college career, I guarantee the kid isn't at La Tech.

It reminds me a lot of the prospect I wanted the Panthers to draft over Luke Kuechly, which was Dontari Poe. Played at Memphis, didn't really hit his growth spurt until he was 20, then all of a sudden was power cleaning 400 pounds. the NFL loves guys that they don't think have maxed out, because with few exceptions, a college training regimen is absolutely nothing compared to what the NFL people go through. It's also a reason teams can be wary of the monsters from schools with legendary S&C programs like Oregon or LSU; they're so much fitter than their competition, how will they do when everyone is that fit in the NFL?

Smart NFL teams don't necessarily want the physical freak who looks oddly larger than everyone else in the room who beat up on bad competition, like Joey Bosa. That's how Vernon Gholston gets drafted. They want the mutant that's hitting his stride as he enters the NFL. 

What the fug do we even do schematically?

I believe Gettleman when he says this is for rotational purposes. The Panthers have so much sideline to sideline speed in the linebacking corps I don't think he really minds that our DEs are kind of pedestrian. The Panthers probably still need one more UT type player, but that is a wicked sick rotation of man in the middle. Zod touched on it in another post, but we will definitely see a lineup with KK at DE in the near future, with Butler and Star manning the middle and Kony outside. 

Really want to get hot and bothered? Think about your goal line defense. Soliai and Butler shooting the A gaps with Star and Short coming in from the 3 tech? Good god. Better get outside fast. 

A lot of other teams couldn't make this move.

And that's a sad case for their fan base. Bad teams are bad for lots of reasons, but one of them is they acquiesce to public pressure. Stephen Ross is the biggest example of this, wanting to always make a big splash in the offseason, doing free agency through the press, blah blah blah. Falcons are very guilty of this as well. Luckily Tunsil just fell through a cloud of smoke into Miami's lap, and the Falcons just..I don't even know what the Falcons were thinking. Quinn is trying to replicate the Seahawks I guess. But can you imagine either of those teams taking a prospect like Turner? Dimitroff would be slaughtered, and the calls for his job would be getting even louder. "WHO IS THIS KID WHERE DID HE PLAY WHAT COMPETITION DID HE GO AGAINST?"

We see the Gettleman respect everywhere. People's response to this pick is "He's a great player, I don't get the fit, but who am I to argue with Gettleman at this point?" Gettleman's success and track record speaks for itself, and he can take a chance on the physical freak at a position that's not a need. He doesn't need to impress anyone. He also doesn't care about satiating the media. I will never forget when the Falcons mortgaged 5 years of Matt Ryan's life to get Julio Jones, Dimitroff was on every national sports show the next day, in addition to all six local atlanta shows (2 stations, morning-lunch-afternoon).

It was planned, it was coordinated, it reeked of desperation. 

Could you imagine Gettleman ever stooping to such levels? He's essentially the football equivalent of this scene.

Feels good man.

Star or KK: Pick one

Can't have them both. It will be very unlikely we lock up both long term. If the team manages to resign Short, then next year will be Star's last year in Carolina, assuming Butler progresses at all. If the Panthers don't lock up short long term, I can see them turning their attention to Star. MAYBE they'd use the franchise tag on Short for one more year, if they feel it makes sense and they have the money, but after how Gettleman handled the Norman situation, I don't know how you can't assume the most cut throat thing possible. Obviously Gettleman values the interior defensive line above all else, and that might change his approach. Will be interesting. 

Reminds me of another time the Panthers had to make a choice between Will Witherspoon and Dan Morgan. Depending on who you listen to, Hurney put the same contract to both of them (Spoon was ascendant, Morgan was possibly damaged goods) and basically whoever signed it first got to stay. Yes, there was a time when Hurney didn't just overpay every single player he drafted. Obviously Morgan loved Fox and wanted to stay, Spoon chased the big contract and never really lived up to his potential. Because of how Morgan's career ended, it's kind of a push on which was the best move. 

We'll have that again, and it'll likely end up being whichever one wants to stay.

[PntherPryd]

Using the draft to manage the cap.  Seems simple but so many teams (and fans) don't get it.

If Ryan Kelly had fallen he would have been another example.

But it also makes you wonder about the integrity of some other team personnel.  Attending the draft when you are a borderline first rounder takes balls.  Butler came right out and said on the red carpet last night that the Detroit Lions told him that if he was still there when they picked in the teens, he would be their pick.  If that is true, shame on them.  I know KC was looking long and hard at him also.  I have no idea why Green Bay passed on him and took DT but very happy they did.

[frash.exe]

God damn if that isn't a good OP

[Gin and Juice]

Gman isn't in the business of grooming talent for other teams. Norman was a rare case that beat Gman at Poker! Star not KK will have the chance to win the contract game other than just getting paid

[Ruff]

Just now, Gin and Juice said:

Gman isn't in the business of grooming talent for other teams. Norman was a rare case that beat Gman at Poker! Star not KK will have the chance to win the contract game other than just getting paid

Norman beat Gettleman at poker? You mean the guy who essentially replaced his agent because of what happened? The guy who was begging Gettleman to take him back at a lower cost, even though the paperwork had already been filed? Yeah, that dude didn't beat anyone at poker. The reality is that Norman wasn't ever going to be here long term in the sense that everyone thought. Gman wanted at least one more good season out of him, but then just decided it wasn't worth the headache anymore.

[Gin and Juice]

Just now, Ruff said:

Norman beat Gettleman at poker? You mean the guy who essentially replaced his agent because of what happened? The guy who was begging Gettleman to take him back at a lower cost, even though the paperwork had already been filed? Yeah, that dude didn't beat anyone at poker. The reality is that Norman wasn't ever going to be here long term in the sense that everyone thought. Gman wanted at least one more good season out of him, but then just decided it wasn't worth the headache anymore.

I'm speaking in terms of rejecting last year's offer and betting on himself this past season! Norman epitomized "contract year play." I fully expect him to return once the skins cut him next year

[ecu88]

2 minutes ago, Gin and Juice said:

I'm speaking in terms of rejecting last year's offer and betting on himself this past season! Norman epitomized "contract year play." I fully expect him to return once the skins cut him next year

Vet min?

[Gin and Juice]

1 minute ago, ecu88 said:

Vet min?

2year/17mil max after release

[LinvilleGorge]

I don't think it comes down to Short or Star.  I think it comes down to Short may have put himself in a position to land a monster deal.  Like a Suh type deal.  I know Gettleman loves his hog mollies and pass rushers, but I'm not sure he'll give a DT Suh money.  Drafting Butler gives us flexibility with Short.  I don't think Butler impacts the Star decision at all.  Very different players.  Butler and Short are 3 technique DTs aka undertackles.  Star is a 0 or 1 technique DT aka a nose tackle.

[Nate Dogg]

Can our defensive tackles even get on the same elevator together?

[ecu88]

Just now, Gin and Juice said:

2year/17mil max after release

So JNo you want 2 yr 17 mill.

JNo let's talk.  You see this man in this picture.

He is worth 17 million. Now come back with an apology and sign the vet min, you had your chance. You understand it's just business.

 

 

 

[Gin and Juice]

1 minute ago, ecu88 said:

So JNo you want 2 yr 17 mill.

JNo let's talk.  You see this man in this picture.

He is worth 17 million. Now come back with an apology and sign the vet min, you had your chance. You understand it's just business.

 

 

 

Lol, JNo worth that deal in our system

[PntherPryd]

It was no accident that we took the 5th year option on Star right before this draft.  We have Star under contract for two more years people!  I don't get the doom and gloom?  KK outplayed Star this year so he is first focus of getting a big new contract.  But now Gman has leverage in contract negotiations at a position we covet and a position at which compensation around the league has been going through the roof.  

[Snake]

43 minutes ago, Gin and Juice said:

I'm speaking in terms of rejecting last year's offer and betting on himself this past season! Norman epitomized "contract year play." I fully expect him to return once the skins cut him next year

Yeah I got 50 million reasons they want cut him in a year. Gman has never been bothered by players chasing money, they are just not going to chase it here.