Preseason Report Cards - Game 1 (BONUS! Bubble Watch)

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, Bronn said:

I'm not watching the stat sheet. I'm watching the game.

Capers ran good routes and got open a few times. He also had a good catch called back because of offsetting penalties, I think. Garrett had a drop in the end zone IIRC, and he didn't get much separation.
 

There was no drop, the db made a straight heads-up good break up.

Capers was flashier, I'll give him that, plus this is not his first pony show, but Garrett has the better measurables and upside.

[Bronn]

6 minutes ago, top dawg said:

There was no drop, the db made a straight heads-up good break up.

Capers was flashier, I'll give him that, plus this is not his first pony show, but Garrett has the better measurables and upside.

It sounds like you're on the Garrett bandwagon and don't want to get off... lol...

I don't have the tape, but I swear there was a drop on that drive. It might not have been in the end zone, but it was in Garrett's basket close to the end zone. I could be mistaking him for one of the other receivers, though.

Believe me, I hope either one of them can show enough to make the PS... But, neither is going to have any impact on our final roster.

[AppHeel]

1 hour ago, Bronn said:

Norwood remains a ghost

I'm not advocating that he had a better game than Byrd or Bersin because the stats don't lie, but this guy is still being overlooked and imo, he's still in the mix for a roster spot.

Norwood, for one, didn't have as many targets as Bersin or Byrd tonight. Yes, part of that could be a product of his ability to get open, but there were a couple of instances watching him specifically last night where he was open and DA didn't look his way so hard to know really what production he might have had. 

I know that people will look at the stats and see that Norwood only had one less target than Byrd and two less than Bersin so not a huge difference, but two of his targets were screen passes on 3rd and long that were never going to amount to huge yards (oddly enough, found it interesting that he was thrown the screen over Byrd who was also on the field). The other two targets, one was well defended and the other he drew a penalty on.

Another thing about Norwood that I believe could keep him in the mix is special teams. Yes, Byrd played a ton of special teams as a return man. That has value, but I still firmly believe that there are other people that are firm locks on the roster that can be a return man for this team (Ginn, Fozzy, etc). IDK if Bersin has a role on ST right now TBH. If he does, let me know.

Norwood is on more coverage units so it's harder to follow him statistically, but he did make a tackle last night on ST. Gettleman has said time and time again that he needs his backups to be able to play special teams.

Again -- While I'm a fan of Norwood and honestly would prefer him as our 5th guy, I'm not suggesting he's ahead of Byrd or Bersin in the roster battle, but don't be surprised or go into complete chaotic shock if he ends up sticking around. He doesn't flash, but contributes more than realized. Just saying.

[mc52beast]

Biggest area of concern for me after one game is the d-line... NOBODY got pressure, and if that's how the season plays out our rookie corners will get abused. Hoping for improvement in the upcoming preseason games.

[Captain Morgan]

nice post OP, thanks for your efforts

[CPcavedweller]

Demiere Byrd should be crucified. Is it a preseason game? Yes. Did he contribute early on in special teams? Yes. Did he fumble a punt on a play that would've, in a normal game situation, potentially led to a game tying drive, yes.

I don't care if he fair catches every punt and kneels on every kick off as long as he is able to field the damn ball. This is prep for the season and last preseason we won these types of games and that carried over into the regular season. 

[CPcavedweller]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

There was no drop, the db made a straight heads-up good break up.

Capers was flashier, I'll give him that, plus this is not his first pony show, but Garrett has the better measurables and upside.

Garrett needs a year on the PS to bulk up. If he isn't going to be a speed player or a finesse player he needs to have more strength to be able to compete physically. 

[brice52]

1

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[ncsfinest21]

Bradberry couldve really stood out if he could get his head turned around. there was 2 ints he left on the field but he played physical on the receivers.

[TheSpecialJuan]

4 hours ago, Bronn said:

So week one of the preseason is in the books. No, the Panthers didn't win and no, I don't care.

As I watch these games now, having grown up with Panthers football, I like to think I look for things that I think the coaches are looking for. I try to keep an eye out for players I am eager to see in game situations. I make note of players' apparent strengths and weaknesses, and try to keep all these notes in the back of my mind so that I can reflect on them later.

Last night, I saw some good things, but I saw enough bad to make me realize that we still have a lot of growing to do.

I'll try to break down each area of play last night, but for brevity's sake I will kind of gloss over non-issues.

QB - I don't have much concern here. We have the reigning league MVP, and two solid guys behind him. A+

WR - This has been a point of conversation ever since Benji went down last year. We made it to the Super Bowl without him, but he is back and looks like he's doing just fine. The offseason talk, however, has been about who will flush out the roster at this position. I've always held that it will be Ted Ginn, Devin Funchess, Philly Brown, and Brenton Bersin. Nothing from last night changes my mind on this. Bersin had a lot of nice catches, and ran good routes. Byrd had a nice grab, yes... But a starting DB wouldn't let that catch happen. Hill had one decent catch, but he had a bad drop. Capers looked good from what I saw, but he was no Bersin. Garrett was unimpressive, and Norwood remains a ghost. I think we'll be fine if we stick with my predicted roster, and I'll give that group an A for last night.

RB/FB - I was rather disappointed with the group as a whole. Fozzy only had a couple carries. CAP and Wegher looked uninspired. Tolbert looked good, as was expected, but everyone else was just "meh." Nobody else looked like they really were trying, at least to me. It could have been lack of blocking that made it look this way, as our backups didn't open many run lanes. It could still be on Shula a bit as far as scheme and calls go. But, Baltimore wasn't fooled much at all by any of our option plays, and I was having flashbacks all game of DeAngelo Williams dancing around behind the line and falling down for a loss. We really need to work on this in the next two preseason games. C-

TE - Olsen needs no words. I don't recall even seeing Dickson on the field. Simonson looked okay, but he had a couple blocks that were kind of shaky. Sandland, on the other hand, blocked very well from the plays I was keying in on him. For whatever reason, we kept the TEs blocking most of the night after Olsen left the game. It could be that that is what they are grading at the position right now. If that is the case, Sandland made a great showing. Giving the group a B for effort, but it could get better once they start running more routes.

OL - I'm a little concerned on the depth here. After the ones went out, we didn't have too much of a pocket or run lanes for the rest of the night. I will admit, though, this is probably one of the least watched positions right now when I am scouting our team. The starters seemed to do a fine job, including Gradkowski. Otherwise, I will have to pay more attention to the group in the coming weeks. C+

DL - Big Vern did alright. He had a couple nice solo stops. Our starters did a good job. We didn't really get much pressure all night, and we had a lot of running lanes opened up due to poor technique, but I really don't think they were trying too hard to stop the run or get pressure. We'll be fine here, but I will be watching this group more closely as the preseason progresses. There is sure to be a couple battles for depth. One thing I will note, that I was a little disappointed by, was the lack of seeing Rakim Cox. I don't even think I saw him on the field, and I had high hopes for him this preseason/season. B-

LB - I have to give props here. I knew we were good, but I think we're actually the best and the deepest LB corps in the league. Mayo and Klein could start on a lot of teams, and Cash did well in the time he was in there. Blechen and Norris even had a couple decent moments. A

DB - I thought Bradberry and Worley did a good job. Both had some things I would like to correct. Bradberry needs to work on getting his head around and back to the action so that he can be aware of the ball coming towards him. Worley needs to work on his tackling still, and wrap instead of lunging with a shoulder. In fact, a lot of the backups need to work on this. Sanchez I didn't see much of. He did have a blitz later in the game that was a little too delayed, and the QB picked up on it and threw to the wideout that would have been Sanchez's assignment in man-to-man. Sanchez reacted well to it by breaking off his blitz and jumping, but he didn't touch the ball as far as I could tell. Overall, we stuck to our zones pretty well. If anything, we just need to work on better tackling in the secondary as a whole, and maintaining awareness for where the ball is. B+

Special Teams - Who cares? LOL just kidding. Gano is still solid. Punter is going to be a spot to watch. Coverage was okay aside from the dumb fair catch penalty. Return game was okay other than Byrd's junk at the end. We still need to work out the guys that will actually be on the unit, but I think we'll be fine. Right now, this preseason special teams play is rather unimportant, aside from maybe squaring up the punting situation. B

 

 

Now, for the part of this post I will call Bubble Watch...

I like to keep special attention on people I think are battling on the bubble for making the final roster. This weeks guys were:

Brandon Wegher/CAP - As of right now, I really don't know about either of these two. Neither showed much last night, and neither looked very great. It could have been the guys around them to an extent. Surely one of them will make the roster as the third RB, but I am not so sure anymore that both will. I can't give either of them the edge because they looked equal so far. To their credit, none of the run game looked very good last night.

Edge: neither

Beau Sandland/Scott Simonson/Ed Dickson - As I mentioned earlier in this post, I don't even recall seeing Dickson. Of course, he could have been in there a bit earlier on, but I was more focused on the impact players on offense at the time. Sandland blocked very well, and followed through with most of them. I did see one play, I think a run play, where his assignment went inside, and he kind of stood up and didn't know what to do or who to block. That was his only real down play I caught. Simonson was average from what I saw, but none of his blocks were as well executed as Sandland's.

I know I am going to be labeled as playing favorites, but...

Edge: Sandland

Brenton Bersin/Any other WR not named Benjamin, Funchess, Ginn, or Brown - Quite honestly, Bersin was the only non-starter bright spot I noticed from the backup guys. He caught pretty much everything sent his way, and his routes were pretty good (even though a few were a little repetitive.) As above in my previous observations, a couple other guys had a decent moment or two, but all indications were that nobody was getting very open after the first half. Most throws were into coverage, and we had a couple drops. That indicates, and I looked for specific instances of it, little separation (and, to the WRs defense, little time in the pocket for the QB.) This will be an ongoing battle, but right now it looks like...

Edge: Bersin... and it is by a mile...

nice write up

[CPcavedweller]

36 minutes ago, stbugs said:

First, it isn't a normal game situation. We went for a 4th and goal when we could have tied the game. Is that normal? It's pre-season so let's not try and make it bigger than it is.

Second, as I posted in other threads, did you know that Byrd had never had a punt return in college or in the NFL before? He's had 3 kick returns in his post high school career and those were 4 years ago. Last night he had more returns than the past 5 years, so let's realize that it was basically brand new to him at an SEC/NFL level. I have no idea if he had any returns in high school. Look at all the training camp threads. I don't recall hearing that he was getting a lot of reps at returns or it would have been a big story, i.e. Byrd is primed for WR #5 due to his return reps. I know I didn't hear or see him taking reps when I was at practice three times last week. For all we know, they threw him out there last night with a few practice reps because he is on the bubble.

Third, let's look at the muff itself. He was not underneath it enough and had to lunge/bend down to reach for it. He should have either got under it better or avoided it and not tried to make a last ditch catch. I think both come with more reps and experience.

Personally, I think your approach is just plain stupid based upon a player who has no experience returning punts at a colleg or NFL level. Watching his first punt return (he had 0 room and still made a gain out of it) and the kick return, I see a guy who I'd love to give a lot of reps to because he can be that electric return guy. We haven't had a 50+ yard kickoff return since 2011.

 

I was the amount of hate Armanti Edwards received for muffing a punt when he first started fielding punts. That guy was a college quarterback who hadn't even played receiver since his junior year of high school yet very few excuses were made for him on the huddle.

To make an excuse for a player whose only real shot on to this team is by special teams play is asinine. Sure, he doesn't have the experience of fielding punts on a regular basis, and could it get better? Yes. However, if he can't field punts, he certainly isn't one of our Top 5 receivers, thus he will be on the practice squad again. 

To answer the point of the thread; we already have Ted Ginn who is a much better version (at this point) of Byrd in every facet of the game that Byrd brings to the table (Returner, Receiver). We don't have a receiver like Bersin since Cotchery is no longer here. I'll take Bersin this season, stash Byrd on the practice squad if he isn't in danger of being picked up by another team. If he is, make him inactive, however get him under some punts during the week because that will be his value to the team at some point. 

He has no value if he is going to be fumbling away punts. Given his smallish stature, and this is pure speculation, I can't imagine he would be able to hold onto a ball that is being swiped at by a mid-level NFL safety either. 

[ncsfinest21]

I think Byrd played great other than the drop punt. He had a solid outing where he showed his speed. He almost reminds me of Smitty. His size and speed and elusiveness. Just got to catch that punt. But its preseason. Philly dropped passes like crazy last preseason and came on strong during the season. No reason to judge Byrd now. He did some great things.

[CPcavedweller]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Ah, got it, you are on the Bersin side. That is fine, I thought he looked good as well. I just through the hate for Byrd on one muff where he made a bad read is silly (still do) and I thought he looked like he could be an explosive returner. Call it making excuses, no worries. I will say that his lack of experience is why he muffed it, not his catching ability. He wasn't in good position and had to lunge for it.

Anyway, I'm of two opinions. I don't want one of my starting WRs and our only true deep threat now (Ginn) fielding punts. We all saw Byrd almost lose a knee. I also want my returners to be able to take it to the house and get us better field position than our best guy being the #46 best kick returner. I think Byrd fits well with that and I hope he continues to get return reps, because he could develop into a threat we haven't had.

Also, Dante Hall and Devin Hester say hello as smallish stature guys who had pretty good return careers. Probably more, didn't have to think hard on that.

Byrd isn't Dante Hall or Devin Hester in terms of speed though. And none of the three can touch Ted Ginn. 

I'm not sure who I want but I know that I don't want three guys who are what seems to be around 5'10 making up 5 of our wide receivers. 

[minicho]

19 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Byrd isn't Dante Hall or Devin Hester in terms of speed though. And none of the three can touch Ted Ginn. 

I'm not sure who I want but I know that I don't want three guys who are what seems to be around 5'10 making up 5 of our wide receivers. 

Um Byrd ran a 4.24 on grass for his pro day...and ted ginn fair catches way too much, especially last year I was quite frusturated. Personally I think from what I saw, Byrd has more of a talent for punt returns and making space for himself. In addition, out top receivers will end up being 3 6'4/5 giants in kb funchess and olsen. Ginn brown and whoever our 5 is will not see the field every down.