Myles Garrett to Cleveland FAR from a lock

[SOJA]

That's not a good look for him 

[top dawg]

26 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

 

In terms of catch percentage

KB was +6.2% compared to 2014 (obviously didn't play in 2015)

Everything following is 2015 vs. 2016

Olsen was virtually identical (62.1% vs. 62.0%)

Ginn was +24%

Philly was -11.4% 

Funchess was -20%

Cam wasn't as accurate this season, particularly late in the season, but Funchess and Philly regressed. Everyone else was at or above their previous level.

Catch percentage is not the best stat to use in regards to a receiver's productivity or lack thereof. It certainly is not necessarily indicative of potential. There are more than a few dynamics at play here, so trying to make it simplistic is not really an effective way to judge things... That's if you are really interested in judging true upside as opposed to making rash judgements.

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Catch percentage is not the best stat to use in regards to a receiver's productivity or lack thereof. It certainly is not necessarily indicative of potential. There are more than a few dynamics at play here, so trying to make it simplistic is not really an effective way to judge things... That's if you are really interested in judging true upside as opposed to making rash judgements.

Then state your case. I'm not trying to single out Funchess here. I looked at all the guys who received significant targets. No cherry picking.

So far, your case basically consists of, "No, you're wrong." If you have a case, make it.

[Saca312]

36 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Then state your case. I'm not trying to single out Funchess here. I looked at all the guys who received significant targets. No cherry picking.

So far, your case basically consists of, "No, you're wrong." If you have a case, make it.

"Funchess didn't get catches that much so he's garbage."

Lmao. What kind of case is that? Cam doesn't have Funch as his 1 or 2 option, and coaches don't give him much chances, but I can assure you there's missed opportunities with Funch.

On that KB catch in Oakland, Funchess was on the other side WIDE open. Wiiiide open. Could've gone to Funch and had an easy TD.

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

"Funchess didn't get catches that much so he's garbage."

Lmao. What kind of case is that? Cam doesn't have Funch as his 1 or 2 option, and coaches don't give him much chances, but I can assure you there's missed opportunities with Funch.

On that KB catch in Oakland, Funchess was on the other side WIDE open. Wiiiide open. Could've gone to Funch and had an easy TD.

Hence why I looked at catch percentage. That's the percentage of balls thrown his way that he catches. Less than 40% last season. He only received five fewer targets last season compared to 2015.

At some point, both as a coordinator and as a QB, you pretty much just forget about a guy when he's rarely catching the balls thrown his direction. It's just the truth. 

I could just see that conversation on the sideline now...

"Cam! I was WIDE OPEN!!!"

"Bruh... STFU. Not like you would've caught the damn ball anyway."

[Saca312]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Hence why I looked at catch percentage. That's the percentage of balls thrown his way that he catches. Less than 40% last season. He only received five fewer targets last season compared to 2015.

At some point, both as a coordinator and as a QB, you pretty much just forget about a guy when he's rarely catching the balls thrown his direction. It's just the truth. 

I could just see that conversation on the sideline now...

"Cam! I was WIDE OPEN!!!"

"Bruh... STFU. Not like you would've caught the damn ball anyway."

Thing is, Cam really threw to Funch in very tight situations that really didn't give him much of a chance from what I was seeing.

Plus Cam being inaccurate didn't help his case at all.

[top dawg]

35 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Then state your case. I'm not trying to single out Funchess here. I looked at all the guys who received significant targets. No cherry picking.

So far, your case basically consists of, "No, you're wrong." If you have a case, make it.

I already did. You can't base a receiver's value off of catch percentage. You also can't really judge most receiver's potential value off a rookie season. You certainly can't judge a receiver's upside based on the train wreck that has happened since our Super Bowl appearance. Funchess was markedly raw when drafted, more than KB when he was drafted, and more than Brown when he wasa acquired. The fact is that most receivers don't even break out until their third year. With as little relative playing time that Funchess has gotten, it really would be pretty crazy to draw any definitive conclusions. One more year should probably show us the way in which we should go with a young receiver like Funchess whom our GM and all parties involved still says has potential.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Saca312 said:

Thing is, Cam really threw to Funch in very tight situations that really didn't give him much of a chance from what I was seeing.

Plus Cam being inaccurate didn't help his case at all.

That's why I looked at all the guys on the team who received significant targets. Olsen was the same, KB was up a little, Ginn was up huge. It was Philly and Funchess who regressed in a major way.

Agreed that Cam was certainly not as accurate last year, particularly late in the year. Ironically, Funchess' catch percentage actually improved at the end of the season when Cam was his least accurate. Now, "improved" is a relative term since it was still only 47%, but still significantly better than his season average.

[AceBoogie]

15 hours ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

Hahaha, dumb move, kid.

How so?

[AceBoogie]

11 hours ago, Snake said:

Kid might as well face the fact he will be a brown.  Cam Newton was a lucky man, he could be playing in Buffalo right now. Luck did him and us a huge solid. 

Did it tho?

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I already did. You can't base a receiver's value off of catch percentage. You also can't really judge most receiver's potential value off a rookie season. You certainly can't judge a receiver's upside based on the train wreck that has happened since our Super Bowl appearance. Funchess was markedly raw when drafted, more than KB when he was drafted, and more than Brown when he wasa acquired. The fact is that most receivers don't even break out until their third year. With as little relative playing time that Funchess has gotten, it really would be pretty crazy to draw any definitive conclusions. One more year should probably show us the way in which we should go with a young receiver like Funchess whom our GM and all parties involved still says has potential.

This is why I was comparing 2015 vs. 2016. He played right at 44.5% of offensive snaps in both seasons. He had 5 starts in 2015 and 7 starts in 2016. He had 63 targets in 2015 and 58 targets in 2016. Pretty close. He caught 49.2% of those balls in 2015. Not great, but not utterly abysmal. He caught 39.7% of those targets in 2016. Uh oh. That's abysmal. His drop rate was 6.4% in 2015 and did improve to 5.2% in 2016. Both of those numbers are a little higher than ideal, but not awful. IMO, the biggest issue with Funchess is that he doesn't compete well for the ball when it's in the air. Unless he's wide open or the ball is perfectly placed, it's probably not going to be caught and his route running isn't at a level where he's getting wide open very often unless it's a straight up busted coverage.

Like I said, I really hope that Funchess will improve. I think the guy does have potential. Maybe a change at WR coach will benefit him. We'll have to see. It's not like I'm screaming to cut the guy or trade him for a late round conditional pick. Let's see what he can do. But, what I am saying is that in terms of shaping our roster, we probably shouldn't be counting on him to take a giant leap forward. Everyone was raving about the guy last offseason saying he'd improved by leaps and bounds, but that didn't translate on the field on game day. If we have an opportunity to get better at WR, we shouldn't allow Funchess' presence on the roster to sway us from doing so. That's all I'm saying.

 

[top dawg]

9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If we have an opportunity to get better at WR, we shouldn't allow Funchess' presence on the roster to sway us from doing so. 

 

Now that's something we totally agree on.

[arbnranger]

28 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's why I looked at all the guys on the team who received significant targets. Olsen was the same, KB was up a little, Ginn was up huge. It was Philly and Funchess who regressed in a major way.

Agreed that Cam was certainly not as accurate last year, particularly late in the year. Ironically, Funchess' catch percentage actually improved at the end of the season when Cam was his least accurate. Now, "improved" is a relative term since it was still only 47%, but still significantly better than his season average.

At the end of the day that's a fair, logical assessment. You can't really argue with the facts. 

However,  I think most of us can see the teams overall play effected everyone, some more than others.

Im hoping Young Fun matures and takes a step forward next season. Just from my untrained eye, he has all the tools and talent to be successful.

Some guys finally break through that wall that's holding them back and find their place. 

[AceBoogie]

2 hours ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

Moves like these are costly. What if he drops from first overall to fifth? He'll lose money.

How much money would you give up not to play for the Browns?