Analysis: Beyond The Completion Percentage - Why Carolina's Scheme And Weapons Made Life Hard For Cam

[Hogmolliesmaht]

8 minutes ago, Snake said:

Probably one of the Dumbest comparisons I have seen in a while. For one when the Pats had poor lines they relied on defense, number 2 they play in the weakest div in football so playoffs are almost given, 3rd when Brady was at his best was when he had talent around him. 

You're welcome to your opinion but the Pats have always scored when they needed to and won when they needed to. Also, if we're not going to compare ourselves to the best of the best, then why even bother with any of this? I want my team to win consistently and win SB's like the Pats. Isn't that what we all want? Isn't that what all QB's are ultimately judged on? I want our team to win and for Cam to be a winner like Tom Brady. If he has a problem with the damn play calling, then he needs to speak the hell up and insist that they listen to him. Otherwise, why is he even here?

[falconidae]

8 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Nope. If you watched the game, you'd see a different style of playcalling that I already alluded to above.

You seem very fast to blame the QB rather than the OC. Just wondering if it's the same with that particular play. 

 

Ryan has nothing to do with Cam. For the record, Falcons lost like they won, as a team. Ryan made mistakes, Freeman missed a critical block, defense couldn't make a stop, Shanahan didn't adapt his play calls to losing both starting tackles and having a center with a broken leg, Quinn didn't make him run the ball late.

And, none of that has anything to do with Cam.

What part of "Cam has some of the blame for the long developing throws" is letting Shula off the hook?

And, yeah, obviously Cam and Anderson will have different playcalls, but Anderson's 68% comp means there are easier passes in Shula's offense, why doesn't Shula call them for Cam? I think the answer is he does, that , on most deep pass plays there's a checkdown option, and that many times Cam ignores it.

There's obvious checkdowns available on most of the gifs you've shown of Cam throwing the deep ball, there's obviously checkdowns available to Anderson; I'm betting that if you went through the all -22 you'd find multiple instances of checkdowns available. Not always, because there's some max protect packages and some plays where the checkdown gets taken out before he can be thrown to. But Cam makes his life more difficult by passing up easy throws.

[bababoey]

Before we get into a "Matt Ryan is the best ever" pillow fight, think about 1 thing.  Most of the pass plays for Cam have a designed check down built into them.  In 2015, when things were going well, from time to time, he took the check down.  Last year how many times do you remember Cam taking the easy check down.  Cam was looking to make the big play and looking down the field more.  Maybe because our defense, mostly early in the year, was struggling. 

When they go into the no huddle for 20 or so snaps a game how many times does Cam call a play with shorter, easy throws, type routes.  So everyone can blame Shula all they want,  but some of the blame has to go to Cam, for trying to make the big time throws all the time, as well

[falconidae]

6 minutes ago, bababoey said:

Before we get into a "Matt Ryan is the best ever" pillow fight, think about 1 thing.  Most of the pass plays for Cam have a designed check down built into them.  In 2015, when things were going well, from time to time, he took the check down.  Last year how many times do you remember Cam taking the easy check down.  Cam was looking to make the big play and looking down the field more.  Maybe because our defense, mostly early in the year, was struggling. 

When they go into the no huddle for 20 or so snaps a game how many times does Cam call a play with shorter, easy throws, type routes.  So everyone can blame Shula all they want,  but some of the blame has to go to Cam, for trying to make the big time throws all the time, as well

I'm not going to proclaim Ryan the best, unless we're taking strictly falcons QBs.

And this is what I'm saying, Cam loves to make the deep pass, with good reason, he's really good at it. But he passes up easier throws. It's not all on Shula.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

9 minutes ago, bababoey said:

Before we get into a "Matt Ryan is the best ever" pillow fight, think about 1 thing.  Most of the pass plays for Cam have a designed check down built into them.  In 2015, when things were going well, from time to time, he took the check down.  Last year how many times do you remember Cam taking the easy check down.  Cam was looking to make the big play and looking down the field more.  Maybe because our defense, mostly early in the year, was struggling. 

When they go into the no huddle for 20 or so snaps a game how many times does Cam call a play with shorter, easy throws, type routes.  So everyone can blame Shula all they want,  but some of the blame has to go to Cam, for trying to make the big time throws all the time, as well

I'm glad somebody here sees it. We have firmly established in this thread that shorter passes are, indeed, a part of Shula's system. The only question is why were they throwing shorter passes when Anderson was in and not when Cam was in? Was is simply because Anderson took what the offense gave him instead of looking for the big play or was it an entirely different game plan? Surely it's not because they want for Cam to get hit more. He is the highest paid player on the team, for crying out loud.

[Saca312]

@bababoey @Hogmolliesmaht Here's why checking down didn't work:

First of all, when Cam's under pressure, you'll generally see him without an outlet receiver and forced to try and turn to Olsen. Sometimes it did not go well.

Olsen wasn't even open that much on the Broncos one if at all, and there was no way Cam could've held the ball long enough for Ginn to get open on his long-developing route.

Very rarely do you see him with the outlet receiver many assume we always have, and all I see are a bunch of deep plays.

When it comes to our "outlet" receivers, we didn't have many good ones. Fozzy Whittaker dropped way too many balls to be counted as a "safe option"

Oh and remember who our LT was

 

 

[Hogmolliesmaht]

You said yourself that they were calling shorter passes when Anderson started. I just want to know what is stopping Cam from calling those same plays. Did they just draw that stuff in the dirt when Anderson was playing or is that stuff available to Cam if he wants to audible to them? If I knew how to do gifs, I'm sure I could find at least one play where Cam could have checked down, for every play you have here.

[RealBitsOfPanther]

1 hour ago, Saca312 said:

Did you watch the Bucs game that DA played in? 

How in the hell was that the same playcalling Cam Newton had? I can assure you what was called was in no way shape or form similar to what Cam Newton was expected to do. 

This. The first play for DA in that game was a play action boot leg. When was the last time Shula called a boot leg and easy completion in the flat for Cam? 

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

Tom Brady has played behind makeshift lines, with mediocre WR's, and has gone through plenty of OC's who left the Patriots and failed elsewhere and he has never had a losing season. Maybe it is unfair to hold Cam to the same standard as the GOAT, but I'm gonna because he's been around long enough to learn all the lessons and he's making GOAT money.

The difference is Brady knows where he is going with the ball as soon as it is snapped and gets it out of his hands quickly. He takes what the defense gives him and rarely holds the ball. He manipulates the defense to create matchups and audibles to the easy play. He throws the receiver open and throws it to where they will be not where they are which makes it a late or behind throw.

Cam..............is still learning this... ... 

[Ball4life]

56 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Nope. If you watched the game, you'd see a different style of playcalling that I already alluded to above.

You seem very fast to blame the QB rather than the OC. Just wondering if it's the same with that particular play. 

I'll lay it out below:

In the GIF, Brandon Flowers of the Patriots murdered Matt Ryan in what would be a critical play of the Superbowl. Matt Ryan would step back further than normal and hold the ball longer than normal, indicating he was hoping for a deep pass instead of a safe play.

Believe it or not, he had enough time to make a quick progression and understand he would be facing a blitz. He had an outlet receiver wide open for the most part.

Unfortunately, Matt Ryan didn't look Freeman's way. Shanahan had a safe option ready to fire, but Matt Ryan botched it. A short dump off to Freeman would've gained a safe 1-2 yards or more, but Matt Ryan did not go his way. Right at this point the ball should've been in the air going right in Freeman's hands.

Thus, the result was a sack. Shanahan didn't call a run play - which everyone seems to think he should've called - due to the fact that the run game before was getting stuffed. Shanahan opted for a safe play with an opportunity to turn it into a deep play since he knew the run game was doing nothing. 

In this playcall, there was virtually no excuse for Matt Ryan to get sacked with the look the Patriots defense gave and how he had an outlet receiver to go to.

Matt Ryan didn't go for the short and easy play even when he could see an obvious blitz was coming, and held the ball longer than he usually does. That isn't on Shanahan; that's on Matt Ryan for his decision making.

Matt Ryan was a key reason you lost the Superbowl.

So because of that one play, Ryan is the reason the Falcons lost the Super Bowl? Didn't he have a 144 QB rating? Falcons blew the game but Ryan is not the reason they blew it. 

[panthers55]

5 minutes ago, RealBitsOfPanther said:

This. The first play for DA in that game was a play action boot leg. When was the last time Shula called a boot leg and easy completion in the flat for Cam? 

You mean the one that got intercepted?

[Hogmolliesmaht]

5 minutes ago, RealBitsOfPanther said:

This. The first play for DA in that game was a play action boot leg. When was the last time Shula called a boot leg and easy completion in the flat for Cam? 

Again though, what exactly is stopping Cam from calling those plays himself or at least suggesting them in team meetings during the week, if he believes that would work for him? I just can't accept that he has no input in this offense and that Shula is calling worse plays for him just to piss the fanbase off.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

The difference is Brady knows where he is going with the ball as soon as it is snapped and gets it out of his hands quickly. He takes what the defense gives him and rarely holds the ball. He manipulates the defense to create matchups and audibles to the easy play. He throws the receiver open and throws it to where they will be not where they are while makes it a late or behind throw.

Cam..............is still learning this... ... 

Cam should know this stuff by now, don't you think? Brady was doing all of these things in year 2.

[tiger7_88]

3 hours ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

I love Cam and I wanted the Panthers to draft him as much as anybody here, but...

And there it is... first out of the box.

I thought, at the very least, it would have been Page 2.