When Shula Does The Shula-ing and Peak Shulas.

[Darvinsun]

9 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

you may have a point if this issue didn't occur on defense as well, so that leads me to the head coach making these decisions, and who's picking these players? that would be DG before he was let go. Honestly can't say i believe shula has much authority in deciding game day personnel, i could be dead wrong also. I'm saying i've seen fair share of bad play calling mixed with good play calling that ends in not be executed properly, but ultimately it's been due to a under-performing wr core that has been the issue since cam was drafted, followed by the in ability to replace gross, if you think a new oc is able to make this current roster top ten on offense that's fine i;m eager to see, but i guarantee he gets a hc gig the following year if he pulls that off with the current talent.

Not Shula. He has already proven who he was..its too bad Rivera did not believe it. Yes Gettlemen made final decisions on players but I do believe rivera and Shula evaluated these players as well. Having players for visits and going to prodays they gave incite just as well. I dont believe the GM picked these players and said use them with no input from the coaches. If so thats a big problem that needs to be addressed.

[tiger7_88]

On 12/4/2017 at 9:30 PM, Cpt slay a ho said:

Listen I understand the shula criticism but expecting a top 5-10 offesne with this wr core and oline is craziness. Talent issue at wr and ot is what’s holding this offense back more then playcalling 

See if you can pick out the Shula offense anomaly:

2013 - 18th in scoring offense

2014 - 19th

2015 - 1st

2016 - 15th

2017 - 16th

[rayzor]

On 12/4/2017 at 9:19 PM, Burnout189 said:

Square peg, meet round hole. Shula logic.

they'll never see it coming.

 

[rayzor]

12 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

you may have a point if this issue didn't occur on defense as well, so that leads me to the head coach making these decisions, and who's picking these players? that would be DG before he was let go. Honestly can't say i believe shula has much authority in deciding game day personnel, i could be dead wrong also. I'm saying i've seen fair share of bad play calling mixed with good play calling that ends in not be executed properly, but ultimately it's been due to a under-performing wr core that has been the issue since cam was drafted, followed by the in ability to replace gross, if you think a new oc is able to make this current roster top ten on offense that's fine i;m eager to see, but i guarantee he gets a hc gig the following year if he pulls that off with the current talent.

you've got who you've got. find what this set players CAN do well and base everything around that. this is what competent leaders would do. they need to be aware of who they have when coming up with a game plan and then, situationally based on what we are able to do and what the defense is allowing us to do, adapt.

shula comes up with a game plan and then sticks to his guns under the idea that he and rivera have that they want to dictate what they do to the opposition rather than having the opposition dictate what the team does. it's a good idea, but unless everything is going perfectly according to plan...it's doomed.

adapt or die.

[Jeremy Igo]

9 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

See if you can pick out the Shula offense anomaly:

2013 - 18th in scoring offense

2014 - 19th

2015 - 1st

2016 - 15th

2017 - 16th

I'd like to see this if it was possible to adjust for Cam's improvised heroics that have saved countless drives.

 

I suspect without Cam, Shula never sniffs a ranking in the teens, likely in the mid twenties his entire tenure.

[jayflip]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Igo said:

I'd like to see this if it was possible to adjust for Cam's improvised heroics that have saved countless drives.

 

I suspect without Cam, Shula never sniffs a ranking in the teens, likely in the mid twenties his entire tenure.

He’d be ranked #REF! On the spreadsheet due to the spreadsheet’s lack of execution and missed opportunities. 

[tiger7_88]

12 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

See if you can pick out the Shula offense anomaly:

2013 - 18th in scoring offense

2014 - 19th

2015 - 1st

2016 - 15th

2017 - 16th

As an addendum to my post above, I'd like to add Shula's Tampa years as offensive coordinator (herein lies the long-time warning provided to us by @Jeremy Igo back in the day of which, I must say, I did not require any convincing since I knew all about Mike Shula from even way back in his college playing days where he was also utterly mediocre) :

1996 - 30th in scoring offense

1997 - 23rd

1998 - 18th

1999 - 27th

Now I pose the same question with regard to all the items above including my original post: Find the anomaly.

Poor, poor Mike Shula... according to some, he's just ALWAYS being betrayed by those damn players.

[tiger7_88]

2 hours ago, rayzor said:

you've got who you've got. find what this set players CAN do well and base everything around that. this is what competent leaders would do. they need to be aware of who they have when coming up with a game plan and then, situationally based on what we are able to do and what the defense is allowing us to do, adapt.

shula comes up with a game plan and then sticks to his guns under the idea that he and rivera have that they want to dictate what they do to the opposition rather than having the opposition dictate what the team does. it's a good idea, but unless everything is going perfectly according to plan...it's doomed.

adapt or die.

Yep.  Bill Belichik? Pete Carroll?  Sean Payton?  Those fuggers look at their players and figure out what their players are actually GOOD at and adapt their "system" to those real-world facts.

Rivera (and Shula)?  Nope, sorry.  Our "system" is a winner, our players just betray poor Ron and Mike time and again because they don't "execute".

[Sirpurrsom3885]

We should run stew more, would love to see him be the main focus of the first 8 or 9 drives to start the game

[MasterAwesome]

Y’all can’t argue separately that we’ve never given Cam weapons or an o-line in his entire career at Carolina and also expect Shula to field a top-10 offense year after year. Unless you expect him to do that with just Cam alone. Weapons/o-line don’t only impact the QB...it impacts the entire offense. At least be consistent in your argument. Either:

A) Cam has actually been given “good enough” NFL-caliber pieces around him, or

 

B) He has been given underwhelming pieces around him, for which you also have to consider as handicapping Shula’s success with this offense

[Cpt slay a ho]

20 hours ago, Darvinsun said:

Not Shula. He has already proven who he was..its too bad Rivera did not believe it. Yes Gettlemen made final decisions on players but I do believe rivera and Shula evaluated these players as well. Having players for visits and going to prodays they gave incite just as well. I dont believe the GM picked these players and said use them with no input from the coaches. If so thats a big problem that needs to be addressed.

Coaches have input of course but doesn’t seem like dg cared too much about it, if you’re willing to think shula has a significant input so be it but the moves the team have made don’t show it until this previous draft

[Cpt slay a ho]

8 hours ago, rayzor said:

you've got who you've got. find what this set players CAN do well and base everything around that. this is what competent leaders would do. they need to be aware of who they have when coming up with a game plan and then, situationally based on what we are able to do and what the defense is allowing us to do, adapt.

shula comes up with a game plan and then sticks to his guns under the idea that he and rivera have that they want to dictate what they do to the opposition rather than having the opposition dictate what the team does. it's a good idea, but unless everything is going perfectly according to plan...it's doomed.

adapt or die.

Not referring to his game plans or inability to adapt, those are legitimate reasons to put him on the hot seat, but objectively looking at the roster I cant expect more then a middle of the pack offense, the myth that he doesn’t know how to use players, when in fact he does coupled with the atrocious job done to not only give cam weapons but overall give the offense a talent boost im not buying it. I’ve stated a long time ago whoever’s responsibke for the offense going into safe mode when up a couple scores is another big issue, if that’s his doing than I’m on board for dindibg a new oc but I’m pretty sure this is Ron’s doing

[Cpt slay a ho]

4 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

Y’all can’t argue separately that we’ve never given Cam weapons or an o-line in his entire career at Carolina and also expect Shula to field a top-10 offense year after year. Unless you expect him to do that with just Cam alone. Weapons/o-line don’t only impact the QB...it impacts the entire offense. At least be consistent in your argument. Either:

A) Cam has actually been given “good enough” NFL-caliber pieces around him, or

 

B) He has been given underwhelming pieces around him, for which you also have to consider as handicapping Shula’s success with this offense

This.

i go into one thread and hear about   Cam’s lackadaisical supporting cast, wr and o line issues, then I go into another thread where it’s all shula’s fault.....that don’t add up. 

Literally listen last year to people bitch about not switching to a short passing game, and those same people bitch this year because we aren’t taking deep shots.

spagnolia led the saints to a bottom 5 defense and turned around and led the giants ladt year to number 2, the difference you ask? Way better talent.

[L-TownCat]

Why are we conflating the ideas of Shula’s situational play calling and fielding a top-10 unit?

Thats a straw-man.  With what we have, we should be top-half at worst.  With a good play caller we wouldn’t need gaudy numbers.  Efficiency, consistency.  These are what we ask.

Shula designs good plays.  He just can’t call them at the right time.  He’s that guy on Madden that just picks plays based on how many arrows are in it.