Pilots vs Commanders

[4Corners]

What about Pringles vs Doritos 

[Sasquatch]

3 hours ago, Popsickle said:

2nd lieutenant

lieutenant

Captain

Major

Lieutenant Colonel

Colonel

Brigadier General

Major General

Lieutenant General

General

For army/Marines maybe air Force. Not sure about the Navy they are all jacked up and their captains are O-6s equivalent to an army Colonel so I can see your mistake. 

Ensign

Lt. Junior Grade

Lt. 

Lt. Commander

Commander 

Capt. 

Commodore

Rear Adm

Vice Adm

Adm

Fleet Adm

[tiger7_88]

1 hour ago, jamos14 said:

Navy is odd.

Just historical ranks just like Army/Marine ranks are historical ranks.

Back in the old days of the British Navy, the officer ranks basically boiled down to Midshipman, Lieutenant, Commander, Captain, Admiral.  (There were also "warrant officers" as well, but I won't address those here, mainly because warrant officers were not included in the chain-of-command, which tradition holds to this day.)

Like today, however, you could be a Commander and, by tradition, be awarded the honorific of "Captain" because you were the commander of your vessel.

Back then the British Navy was the largest Navy in the world by far, so there were WAY more lieutenants than there were Commanders and Captains, obviously.

Each vessel had its Midshipmen, which ages could easily range from age 8 to 16, and the training of the Midshipmen on seamanship, marksmanship, weaponry, leadership, and ships operations was the responsibility of the officers (overall responsible was the Captain, of course).  Being tested and questioned and (hopefully) passing a face-to-face board consisting of commanders and captains was how Midshipmen made their "jump" to Lieutenant.

Each ship, according to how large it was, would have multiple lieutenants and the only difference in their rank was their seniority, though they were all "Lieutenants".  Generally, they would be divided by numerical ranking on board ship, as in 1st Lieutenant, 2nd Lieutenant, 3rd Lieutenant (in order of seniority).  The 1st Lieutenant in those days was the equivalent of today's Navy ship's Executive Officer (i.e. XO).

To move from Lieutenant to Commander, the Admiralty had to select you for command of a smaller "unrated" ship (the Royal Navy classified its ships by "rates" from 1 to 6, the most powerful being a 1st rate (ship-of-the-line) to least being the 6th rate (smaller frigates).  An "unrated" Royal Navy combatant was usually a sloop, brig, or corvette.  This step is often referred to as becoming a "Master and Commander".

To gain your promotion from Commander to Captain (more accurately Post-Captain), the Admiralty had to select you for command to a "rated" vessel.  Unless one had serious political connections, a Post-Captain would start with command of one of the lower-rated vessels and work his way up throughout his career (if he survived and exhibited good performance).

Anyone who loves good war fiction and also is interested in the "wooden ships and iron men" days of the Royal Navy, I would highly recommend the 20 book Aubrey/Maturin series of historical fiction written by author Patrick O'Brian.  Below is a link to Book 1 of the series.

https://www.amazon.com/Master-Commander-Aubrey-Maturin-Novels-ebook/dp/B006C3Q6GG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1544123994&sr=8-2&keywords=master+and+commander+series+patrick+o'brian

Anyhoo, Navy ranks are no more unusual than any other services ranks since they all come from a historical basis of the British Army and Navy.

[tiger7_88]

8 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Ensign

Lt. Junior Grade

Lt. 

Lt. Commander

Commander 

Capt. 

Commodore

Rear Adm

Vice Adm

Adm

Fleet Adm

They don't use Commodore in the rank structure anymore.  The Commodore-Rear Admiral steps are now Rear Admiral (Lower Half)/Rear Admiral (Upper Half).

However, Captains and Rear Admirals that are appointed to command squadrons of ships are awarded the honorific of "Commodore".

[Sasquatch]

27 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

They don't use Commodore in the rank structure anymore.  The Commodore-Rear Admiral steps are now Rear Admiral (Lower Half)/Rear Admiral (Upper Half).

However, Captains and Rear Admirals that are appointed to command squadrons of ships are awarded the honorific of "Commodore".

I based that on my memory from my days. They brought it back for a while when I was floating. Didn't know (or care) that they killed it again.

[JARROD]

Pilots vs Commanders?

Sounds like 2 competing brands of cigarettes,...

 

binge watching Mad Men,..

[MHS831]

You have to use small words and include pictures because the concrete operational mouth breather population is well represented here.  I do think 4Corners was trying to be funny, but his name does suggest that he is a square, aka not well rounded.

[JARROD]

7 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Recently in the head coaching discussion, we've talked about the differences between coordinators and head coaches. Likewise, we've talked about where Ron Rivera has his strengths...and his weaknesses.

Perhaps this analogy will be helpful in understanding both those concepts.

In modern warfare, air power is a huge factor. In order to control the skies, you need pilots, guys that can control and navigate a fighter plane travelling at insane speeds while also trying to hit targets (sometimes moving targets) with accuracy. These guys are making split second reactive decisions, and they have to be very good at it because the margin for error is razor thin.

In the background, you have those in command.

This is an entirely different skill set, sometimes reactive but best when it's proactive. The decisions made here aren't usually "split second" but they're major. You have to know what men to choose for a mission, you have to know what tools to give them and where to send them, and you have to be able to craft a strategy that will ensure the defeat of your enemy and (as much as possible) the safety of your men.

There are some pilots that can become commanders, and there are some commanders that could also be pilots, but there are quite a few men who only suit one role or the other.

In the NFL, coordinators are pilots, commanders are head coaches.

Ron Rivera is a pilot trying to be a commander.

He'd be better off as a pilot.

I would say the players are pilots because they are the ones shooting and getting shot at, making it happen.

coaches would be flag officers because they are near the action but not getting shot at 

the front office are the secretary of defense and the rest of the cowards that send people to get shot at whilst draft dodging their own kids

[Davidson Deac II]

4 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

Navy equivalents listed above.

Navy should go back to using Commodore.  Rear admiral lower half sounds silly.

[4Corners]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

You have to use small words and include pictures because the concrete operational mouth breather population is well represented here.  I do think 4Corners was trying to be funny, but his name does suggest that he is a square, aka not well rounded.

I am plenty rounded according to my doctor. 

Scott is a good dude, just thought the commentary and take was pointless and stupid. Comparing a borderline incompetent coaching staff to pilots or whatever, I mean come on. 

 

[tiger7_88]

59 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Navy should go back to using Commodore.  Rear admiral lower half sounds silly.

I couldn't agree more.  The problem is that the assholes who achieve flag rank in the Army/Air Force/Marines want to be GENERALS and the assholes who achieve flag rank in the Navy want to be fugging ADMIRALS.

Ergo, the idiocy you have now.  Which is actually an improvement on what the Navy used to do back in the day when they promoted Captains directly from O-6 (Captain) to O-8 (Rear Admiral) because they didn't want their most junior flag officers not to be called "Admiral" like the other Navy's of the world did.  To solve their dilemna, internal to the Navy their was a "lower half" Rear Admiral and an "upper half" Rear Admiral, with the lower half paid as one-stars and the upper half paid as two-stars. 

Thus, today's system at least has the advantage of being much more honest than it used to be.

The only times in the U.S. Navy history that "Commodore" has been an official rank (of 1-star) on the rank structure was during times of heavy war, like the Civil War and WW2.  All other times (except for a short year or two in the early 1980's during the Reagan Navy build-up) the label "Commodore" has been an honorific applied to a commander of a multi-ship force (i.e. a squadron).  After WW2, they either promoted the existing 1-star "Commodores" to Rear Admiral (2-stars) or they retired them at their current rank.

[tiger7_88]

30 minutes ago, 4Corners said:

I am plenty rounded according to my doctor. 

Scott is a good dude, just thought the commentary and take was pointless and stupid. Comparing a borderline incompetent coaching staff to pilots or whatever, I mean come on. 

 

I think being rounded is pointless and stupid.

HA!

TAKE THAT!

BURN!