Panthers should keep Ron Rivera as HC

[steven8989]

3 minutes ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

Hopefully tonight will remove any doubt to any Ron defenders left.

That should have happened after bucs loss, then browns loss. Oh guess what nope he is still here

[d-dave]

Just now, Carl Spackler said:

I'll be honest, I can't think of a single positive to keeping him other than getting a top-three pick in the 2020 draft

You can't be sure.  I am with everyone else who is super pissed about the collapse and failure of this season.  I get it completely.  The Head Coach is the first stop, and he should.

BBBBBUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTT, you can fire Rivera, and we still end up with a top 3 pick in 2020.  You have to look at the overall body of work here.  Can we improve on Rivera?  Maybe.  Can we also ruin the team with the wrong hire?  Yep.  How many good coaches did the Brown ruin?

At the same time, you don't want to be that other Ohio team and stick to a coach who has proven incapable of winning in the playoffs.

Honestly, I'll be excited in 2019 for Panther football, no matter who the HC is.  We'll just have to see what happens, change or no.

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, d-dave said:

Tepper is going to be the most interesting wild card in the whole thing.  He will show his cards after the season, that's for sure!

 

well, we know he is a Pittsburgh guy.

Pitt has had 2 coaches in the last 25+ years.   They didn't fire Cowher when he missed the postseason 3 straight years prior to his Super Bowl win.   Tomlin has actually had some rocky times too. 

[Carl Spackler]

1 minute ago, d-dave said:

You can't be sure.  I am with everyone else who is super pissed about the collapse and failure of this season.  I get it completely.  The Head Coach is the first stop, and he should.

BBBBBUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTT, you can fire Rivera, and we still end up with a top 3 pick in 2020.  You have to look at the overall body of work here.  Can we improve on Rivera?  Maybe.  Can we also ruin the team with the wrong hire?  Yep.  How many good coaches did the Brown ruin?

At the same time, you don't want to be that other Ohio team and stick to a coach who has proven incapable of winning in the playoffs.

Honestly, I'll be excited in 2019 for Panther football, no matter who the HC is.  We'll just have to see what happens, change or no.

I just think an 0-8 second half to a season means you need to absolutely fire your coach and try something different.

Sure, we'll probably still go 4-12 with our collection of limited young stars, a couple great veterans and a bunch of castoffs, but they need direction from a new source -- one who gives a poo. Rivera's message, whatever it is, has clearly grown stale. And tonight, next Sunday and the Sunday after next will continue to prove it.

[CRA]

Just now, Carl Spackler said:

I just think an 0-8 second half to a season means you need to absolutely fire your coach and try something different.

Sure, we'll probably still go 4-12 with our collection of limited young stars, a couple great veterans and a bunch of castoffs, but they need direction from a new source -- one who gives a poo. Rivera's message, whatever it is, has clearly grown stale. And tonight, next Sunday and the Sunday after next will continue to prove it.

you need to be able to rush the passer and the defend the pass in the NFL.  Takes talent.  Ron could channel Dabo Sweeney or whoever you think is the best pep talker in the NFL......you can't scheme around not having a DL and a well rounded DB corp. 

Cam's arm is Cam's arm. 

Not sure what people really expect Ron to be doing.  I don't think the Washington move was a good one.  We have been getting watered down on D coaching but there is a reason the Bears D is the Bears D right now.  Talent. 

[Carl Spackler]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

you need to be able to rush the passer and the defend the pass in the NFL.  Takes talent.  Ron could channel Dabo Sweeney or whoever you think is the best pep talker in the NFL......you can't scheme around not having a DL and a well rounded DB corp. 

Cam's arm is Cam's arm. 

Not sure what people really expect Ron to be doing.  I don't think the Washington move was a good one.  We have been getting watered down on D coaching but there is a reason the Bears D is the Bears D right now.  Talent. 

How, then, with practically the same defense that went 11-5, do we go 6-10? That's what I don't get. This is the exact same core as last year, save swapping Star out for Poe and adding Jackson. A lot of our failure is coaching. Not all, but a damn good bit is the players taking cues from the coaches and being put in positions to fail -- which is the only thing they're good at, to be fair. 

Rivera sucks ass at adjusting in-game. Always been a weakness of his. If we blow in the first 10 mins, we'll blow in the last 10 unless SuperCam bails him out. And it's been a while since that's happened...

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Carl Spackler said:

How, then, with practically the same defense that went 11-5, do we go 6-10? That's what I don't get. This is the exact same core as last year, save swapping Star out for Poe and adding Jackson. A lot of our failure is coaching. Not all, but a damn good bit is the players taking cues from the coaches and being put in positions to fail -- which is the only thing they're good at, to be fair. 

Rivera sucks ass at adjusting in-game. Always been a weakness of his. If we blow in the first 10 mins, we'll blow in the last 10 unless SuperCam bails him out. And it's been a while since that's happened...

it isn't the same defense.   the expression, if you aren't getting better, you are getting worse is true.  We have seen that play out numerous times in Carolina.

We don't have practically the same D.  We lost Star.  Which was big.  Star was the real anchor to that DL.  Best overall player on the DL.  He just did the dirty work.  He his job didn't mean he got lots of highlights.  But he made life easier on KK, Luke and a host of others.   If you lose the best guy you got on a four man unit....it is no little thing.  Then last year, we got a fluke season out of old man Peppers.    And we doubled down on hitting that freak lotto again.   Peppers overachieved in that role and now we acts as if we should of gotten a repeat just by bringing him back.    

So when the DL weakens as ours has.....it exposes the lack of talent at DB.   A lack of talent we have had to mask for years.  Especially S.  We have either been old or bad for a long time.  Take out the DL play and you get exploited.  

I don't really have much of an issue with our gameplans this year.   Our offense frankly is overachieving given the OL and Cam's arm. 

[JawnyBlaze]

46 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

So, to be fair(and I really, really, really don't want to be), would a situation where we bring in a top shelf defensive coordinator next season alleviate some of the concerns? Let's say we keep Norv, who I think has been pretty good, but bring in a very good DC. Would that make people happy or are we just completely done with Rivera has a whole? Again, more of a devil's advocate argument, but he has been arguably our most successful head coach.

What say you?

No cuz the problem is Rivera’s philosophy. Washington being a shitty DC was just a smokescreen for how shitty a HC Rivera is. 

[beastson]

You're insane if you want to keep Ron, that's all.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, beastson said:

You're insane if you want to keep Ron, that's all.

what's my option over Ron? 

I mean, let's say we fire Ron and hire Hugh Jackson.  Give me Ron all day, any day.  Just saying fire Ron is pure emotion.  I mean I would support it if we could do better.  Much easier to do worse.  Look around the league.  He isn't bottom half.  

[Carl Spackler]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

what's my option over Ron? 

I mean, let's say we fire Ron and hire Hugh Jackson.  Give me Ron all day, any day.  Just saying fire Ron is pure emotion.  I mean I would support it if we could do better.  Much easier to do worse.  Look around the league.  He isn't bottom half.  

I'm gonna say we fire run but probably don't hire Hue Jackson as HC. Just a hunch.

[CRA]

Just now, Carl Spackler said:

I'm gonna say we fire run but probably don't hire Hue Jackson as HC. Just a hunch.

okay, but you still are leaving the big but who out there. 

much easier to do worse than Ron and we have plenty of proof that backs that up. 

[Palmetto]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

what's my option over Ron? 

I mean, let's say we fire Ron and hire Hugh Jackson.  Give me Ron all day, any day.  Just saying fire Ron is pure emotion.  I mean I would support it if we could do better.  Much easier to do worse.  Look around the league.  He isn't bottom half.  

Thats a backwards way to think

"Maybe we should keep that guy who's OK at his job because we dont believe in our own ability to find the right guy"

The Eagles fired Reid got it wrong with Kelly and then found Peterson

or they could've stuck with Reid and be inconsistent has always because you know who are they going to find better than Andy Reid

 

[Carl Spackler]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

okay, but you still are leaving the big but who out there. 

much easier to do worse than Ron and we have plenty of proof that backs that up. 

There is, but at some point the fear of the unknown shouldn't deter one from attempting to progress beyond mind-numbing mediocrity.