Argue Rivera's case

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, Hammerin'Cam1 said:

Failure is a part of success. Whoever you think would be an ideal GM, HC combo will undoubtedly have times where they falter.

Rivera in the last 6 seasons is 4-2 in the playoff, no playoffs record so whatever.

All of Rivera's successful seasons came in years when Dave Gettleman set the roster but Gettleman is gone and he's not coming back.

The GM / Head Coach combo of Rivera and Marty Hurney doesn't even have a 500 record.

So basically...not them.

[Carl Spackler]

1 minute ago, Hammerin'Cam1 said:

I hate to break it to you but making the playoffs four times in six seasons is good.

Eight straight losses is bad. George Seifert won Super Bowls but that doesn’t excuse 15 straight losses. 

[TheMaulClaw]

Well...I think it's probably tough for a coach to deal with a lot of change at the GM spot. I will say this... it was nice to have Rivera around through the ownership change. Hes always handled himself well when it comes to controversial issues. Whether it was the Hardy issue, the JR scandal, Eric Reid...hes done well with the Charlotte media. 

I dont think Rivera has forgotten how to coach. We werent expected to do much before the 2015 season and he coached well that year. We were a playoff team last year. Its disappointing to not get back to back winning seasons, but Cams health and lack of urgency had a lot to do with this losing streak. Rivera absolutely made mistakes this year however....specifically the coordinator hires. Washington isnt quite creative enough and Norv is washed up. I think he has one more shot at redemption...but that's it.

[Mr. Scot]

Meanwhile in Arizona...

 

[FakePlasticTrees]

The best argument for keeping Rivera is not so much related to what he has accomplished of which he has a few accomplishments but more related to if not him, who?

Tepper is not going to fire him without good ideas regarding who his replacement would be.  Although unlikely, Rivera may also have trade value if a change was to be made.

My guess is that Rivera is safe unless a quality candidate is available ( I do not have slightest idea who that would be). Last year's crop of new hirees were underwhelming to say the least. I still do not know what Matt Patricia did to even be considered for a HC job. NE consistently won in spite of their defense not because of it.

Unlike some in the media who speculated that the Carolina job would be the most sought after HC job, I am of the view that this is a team that is likely looking at a near complete rebuild. The dearth of talent and the age of the roster became more and more noticeable as the season progressed and this was capped when it became too obvious to ignore that Newton's arm appears to be shot.

Too many, his lack is of arm strength was noticeable all of last season. To those that think his lack of arm strength was because of some late season injury are fooling themselves. I noticed deep balls fluttering downfield last season and it was even worse earlier in this season. The worst news that I read on this point  was that surgery will not rectify his issues. In other words, he is what he is and fixes, simple or complex, will not be in the offing.

I want so badly to be wrong, but I think the Panthers' window is shut and sealed and tinkering around the margins is fool's gold. Tough times are ahead.

[Mr. Scot]

51 minutes ago, FakePlasticTrees said:

The best argument for keeping Rivera is not so much related to what he has accomplished of which he has a few accomplishments but more related to if not him, who?

Tepper is not going to fire him without good ideas regarding who his replacement would be.  Although unlikely, Rivera may also have trade value if a change was to be made.

My guess is that Rivera is safe unless a quality candidate is available ( I do not have slightest idea who that would be). Last year's crop of new hirees were underwhelming to say the least. I still do not know what Matt Patricia did to even be considered for a HC job. NE consistently won in spite of their defense not because of it.

Unlike some in the media who speculated that the Carolina job would be the most sought after HC job, I am of the view that this is a team that is likely looking at a near complete rebuild. The dearth of talent and the age of the roster became more and more noticeable as the season progressed and this was capped when it became too obvious to ignore that Newton's arm appears to be shot.

Too many, his lack is of arm strength was noticeable all of last season. To those that think his lack of arm strength was because of some late season injury are fooling themselves. I noticed deep balls fluttering downfield last season and it was even worse earlier in this season. The worst news that I read on this point  was that surgery will not rectify his issues. In other words, he is what he is and fixes, simple or complex, will not be in the offing.

I want so badly to be wrong, but I think the Panthers' window is shut and sealed and tinkering around the margins is fool's gold. Tough times are ahead.

I disagree with the premise, but here's the thing...

If the best argument that anybody can come up with for keeping a guy is "well, it could be worse", that guy's not very good.

[Cookie Lyon]

6 hours ago, Darvinsun said:

Ron has had 8yrs. He hasn' shown any improvement in his coaching. Cam this Cam that. With everything stated he knew Cam wasn't healthy since the beginning of the season and got worse at the Steelers game. A coaches job is to prepare and be prepared.Ron is never prepared for anything.

This

[MHS831]

30 minutes ago, Cookie Lyon said:

This

I agreed as well, but I played along and presented my case--but this (the post you referenced) was RR in a nutshell.  That is how you evaluate your coach--

[FakePlasticTrees]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I disagree with the premise, but here's the thing...

If the best argument that anybody can come up with for keeping a guy is "well, it could be worse", that guy's not very good.

My "argument " is not that you do not make the change because it could be worse since, of course, that is always the case. I was simply guessing that Tepper will not make a change unless he believes there is a candidate that is an upgrade. In other words, he not change for change's sake. My guess is that, at this time, he does not believe that candidate is out there....and it is only a guess. I do believe Tepper has been making inquiries and the fact that Rivera appears to believe he is safe ( at this time) leads to my conclusion that Tepper is not convinced that an upgrade is available....at this time.

My opinion is that change is needed and that the change should be directed by a GM of Tepper's choosing. My fear is that the change that is needed will be years in the making. Stated bluntly, I do not think this is a very talented team. The shaky status of Cam Newton is simply another source of further future misery.

My dream scenario is that Tepper has his eyes on a young up and coming coach who will be next Sean McVay and manages to find a team willing to trade for Rivera who will have NO trouble finding another job absent a trade I suspect that this will remain a dream only.

 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, FakePlasticTrees said:

My "argument " is not that you do not make the change because it could be worse since, of course, that is always the case. I was simply guessing that Tepper will not make a change unless he believes there is a candidate that is an upgrade. In other words, he not change for change's sake. My guess is that, at this time, he does not believe that candidate is out there....and it is only a guess. I do believe Tepper has been making inquiries and the fact that Rivera appears to believe he is safe ( at this time) leads to my conclusion that Tepper is not convinced that an upgrade is available....at this time.

My opinion is that change is needed and that the change should be directed by a GM of Tepper's choosing. My fear is that the change that is needed will be years in the making. Stated bluntly, I do not think this is a very talented team. The shaky status of Cam Newton is simply another source of further future misery.

My dream scenario is that Tepper has his eyes on a young up and coming coach who will be next Sean McVay and manages to find a team willing to trade for Rivera who will have NO trouble finding another job absent a trade I suspect that this will remain a dream only.

Pretty much everything we're hearing now is speculation. Whether or not Tepper has actually made a decision is unknown.

I believe you can't stand pat with what we have, so at least one has got to go.

Me? I'd choose a new GM too.