7th round pick, NFL minimum salary PK Harrison Butker

[Cpt slay a ho]

21 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 

They are posted. It’s funny how you act like you haven’t read them. That’s adorable.

So if I post all of them, the way you want, are we done with the bet and you lose. How many do I need. 40?  Because I’m not doing it for you to weasel out on some BS again. 

 I haven’t changed anything. You keep bringing up random GMs with horrible resumes. One is with a team that was awful for over a decade. One who can’t win playoff games. Is either what you want from our GM? 

   

I didn’t read them it was a pain enough to find my own,and so far you’ve lost your portion of the bet, waiting to break even by seeing your posts defending hurney.  Both are not horrible gms, I just find it funny that a gm is more responsible for a team winning or losing playoffs games than the actually coaching staff 

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

I didn’t read them it was a pain enough to find my own,and so far you’ve lost your portion of the bet, waiting to break even by seeing your posts defending hurney.  Both are not horrible gms, I just find it funny that a gm is more responsible for a team winning or losing playoffs games than the actually coaching staff 

  I post them and it’s over. Right? We’re done. You lose. How many I need? 

 

[Cpt slay a ho]

16 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  I post them and it’s over. Right? We’re done. You lose. How many I need? 

 

How do I automatically lose lol ? I posted my portion and proved you wrong, now post yours and we’re even 

[Toomers]

37 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

How do I automatically lose lol ? I posted my portion and proved you wrong, now post yours and we’re even 

    This is the best my computer illiterate self could do. And will do. You’re right. That does suck. Couldn’t even get the T out...lol. No more of that. 

Posted February 26, 2018

24 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

That's not entirely correct, you have to know the bonus amount, the non exercise fee, buyback options and so forth if it's going to be guaranteed or not. 

 

For example with Kalil he had a 10m option that upon the team exercising became a cap hit of 2.5 m per season the next 4 years. 

 

If declined the team would have had to use it's non exercise fee or trade him basically. 

The non exercise fee in this case was also 10m dollars, but it also fully guaranteed his new salary for 2018 for the amount of 11m in guarantees. 

 

By claiming the option bonus and not using the non exercise portion of his contract language they saved 5m in salary this season as well as 1m in guarantees. 

By converting said bonus into a signing bonus it gives the team the option of recovery if he should retire. 

 

   Everyone, and I.mean EVERYONE, needs to read this and all of the this posters information in this thread. He’s the only one who has it correct. 

  I went over this exact same scenario at least 10 times over the past couple months. But people kept putting their heads in the sand, and claiming “we have an out” He was always guaranteed 25M. 13M signing, 10M guaranteed option bonus, and first two years salary at 1M each. Sooner or Later, we have to take at least that much of a hit on the cap. Sportrac was always wrong on their numbers. Which I explained numerous times. 

  And blaming Hurney is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. He had no choice. Blaming him just shows how ignorant a person was to the situation, and still are. 

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Posted February 26, 2018

   On 2/26/2018 at 7:07 PM,  Mr. Scot said: 

We already knew he'd be here this season.  Not having the out to cut him after this year is something I can't see as a positive.

Regardless, these decisions are gonna be getting made by someone different next year anyway.

   Nothing done today changes anything. There was never a reasonable “out”. Which is why I kept telling everyone we haven’t even begun to pay for Matt Kalil yet. Gettleman did this all by himself so Kalil’s cap hit last year could be so low. 

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Posted July 30, 2018

   On 7/30/2018 at 11:03 AM,  Snake said: 

Good thing Hurney locked him up for the next few years. 

 Who? Matt Kalil? 

Hurney hasn’t done one thing in regards to Matt Kalil’s contract, that wasn’t set in stone when Gettleman signed him. 

   

[Snake]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

    This is the best my computer illiterate self could do. And will do. You’re right. That does suck. Couldn’t even get the T out...lol. No more of that. 

Posted February 26, 2018

24 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

That's not entirely correct, you have to know the bonus amount, the non exercise fee, buyback options and so forth if it's going to be guaranteed or not. 

 

For example with Kalil he had a 10m option that upon the team exercising became a cap hit of 2.5 m per season the next 4 years. 

 

If declined the team would have had to use it's non exercise fee or trade him basically. 

The non exercise fee in this case was also 10m dollars, but it also fully guaranteed his new salary for 2018 for the amount of 11m in guarantees. 

 

By claiming the option bonus and not using the non exercise portion of his contract language they saved 5m in salary this season as well as 1m in guarantees. 

By converting said bonus into a signing bonus it gives the team the option of recovery if he should retire. 

 

   Everyone, and I.mean EVERYONE, needs to read this and all of the this posters information in this thread. He’s the only one who has it correct. 

  I went over this exact same scenario at least 10 times over the past couple months. But people kept putting their heads in the sand, and claiming “we have an out” He was always guaranteed 25M. 13M signing, 10M guaranteed option bonus, and first two years salary at 1M each. Sooner or Later, we have to take at least that much of a hit on the cap. Sportrac was always wrong on their numbers. Which I explained numerous times. 

  And blaming Hurney is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. He had no choice. Blaming him just shows how ignorant a person was to the situation, and still are. 

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Posted February 26, 2018

   On 2/26/2018 at 7:07 PM,  Mr. Scot said: 

We already knew he'd be here this season.  Not having the out to cut him after this year is something I can't see as a positive.

Regardless, these decisions are gonna be getting made by someone different next year anyway.

   Nothing done today changes anything. There was never a reasonable “out”. Which is why I kept telling everyone we haven’t even begun to pay for Matt Kalil yet. Gettleman did this all by himself so Kalil’s cap hit last year could be so low. 

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Posted July 30, 2018

   On 7/30/2018 at 11:03 AM,  Snake said: 

Good thing Hurney locked him up for the next few years. 

 Who? Matt Kalil? 

Hurney hasn’t done one thing in regards to Matt Kalil’s contract, that wasn’t set in stone when Gettleman signed him. 

   

Wrong, but I would have a better chance getting a government funded than getting you to understand anything else than your opinion.

[tiger7_88]

8 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

I never suggested they didn’t have faith in him, just that he hadn’t shown enough to prove that he was yet worthy of the starting job.

You’ve just justified every instance of Ron Rivera keeping talented rookies watching from the bench while Amini Silatolu’s and washed up Torrey Smiths get to be starters game after game after game.

Lack of courage to make that leap.

Lack of courage in just about every aspect of the game, actually.

 

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, tiger7_88 said:

You’ve just justified every instance of Ron Rivera keeping talented rookies watching from the bench while Amini Silatolu’s and washed up Torrey Smiths get to be starters game after game after game.

Lack of courage to make that leap.

Lack of courage in just about every aspect of the game, actually.

 

Again, this isn’t a Ron Rivera thing...this is common practice across the league. So many of you have tunnel vision when it comes to the Panthers which cause you to be completely oblivious to how every other team operates. Hell, how many rookie QBs this year alone were benched to start the season in favor of vets...only to get inserted into the starting lineup a few games into the season. The Browns, the Bills, the Cardinals, and the Ravens...that was one singular position group in one season. You can argue other QB changes like CJ Beathard vs. Nick Mullens and hell, you could make a case for Foles vs. Wentz this year. Not to mention Tampa Bay being forced to play Fitzpatrick cause of Winston’s suspension and then him killing it the first few games of the season, only for TB to pull him after one bad half of football.

Other examples this year: Denver basically splitting carries between Royce Freeman and Phillip Lindsay when Lindsay was a superior talent. The Browns starting Carlos Hyde and leaving Nick Chubb on the bench before trading Hyde and giving the starting job to Chubb. Dallas playing a declining, hobbled Sean Lee over Leighton Vander Esch. Detroit playing LeGarrette Blount over Kerryon Johnson for most of the year. Miami still giving the ancient Frank Gore the bulk of the carries over Kenyan Drake.

Let’s go back last year if that’s not enough for you. Patrick Mahomes riding the bench in favor of Alex Smith. JuJu being buried on the depth chart to start the season. Cincinnati using a time share with Jeremy Hill, Giovanni Bernard, and Joe Mixon instead of using the obviously superior talent Mixon from the beginning.

Did Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers start their careers from day one? Arguably the two greatest active QBs?

Seriously man, there are so...many...examples......I admit I don’t know every team inside out, so these are just the most egregious, blatant cases.

Newsflash: every team has talent buried on the roster...sometimes it takes an injury or other extenuating circumstances for a player to be given an opportunity to shine. Some players are just gamers...they may not shine in practice, but they ball out in games. Also is it hard to fathom rookies need time to learn the playbook? Especially at a position like WR? How can you say so matter-of-factly that a player like Andrew Norwell, Taylor Moton, DJ Moore, etc. didn’t benefit from being eased into the starting lineup rather than getting thrust into the job from the start? Who’s to say that they would’ve hit the ground running from day 1 and experienced the same success?

[Krovvy]

Fourteen pages over the loss of a seventh round pick. Where the fug was the fourteen page thread about trading a fourth round pick for a punter?

[Toomers]

5 hours ago, Snake said:

Wrong, but I would have a better chance getting a government funded than getting you to understand anything else than your opinion.

Its not an opinion. It’s a fact. Just like it was the 5 other times I proved it. I know where those are. We can easily go over that again and show what we both said. Again.

 

[tiger7_88]

10 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

Again, this isn’t a Ron Rivera thing...this is common practice across the league.

And the vast majority of the league is trash.

The one team where it is out-and-out public knowledge that such a thing is NOT "common practice" is the New England Patriots.  Bill Belichik doesn't seem to lose any sleep over that whole "OH NOEZ!  WHAT IF THE NEXT GUY WE GET TURNS OUT NOT TO BE AS GOOD??!?!?!?!" issue.  He just fugging coaches'em up OR (if they are not amenable to being coached up) moves on to the next piece of the machine.

They seem to be pretty good using that philosophy.

[Cpt slay a ho]

19 hours ago, Toomers said:

    This is the best my computer illiterate self could do. And will do. You’re right. That does suck. Couldn’t even get the T out...lol. No more of that. 

Posted February 26, 2018

24 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

That's not entirely correct, you have to know the bonus amount, the non exercise fee, buyback options and so forth if it's going to be guaranteed or not. 

 

For example with Kalil he had a 10m option that upon the team exercising became a cap hit of 2.5 m per season the next 4 years. 

 

If declined the team would have had to use it's non exercise fee or trade him basically. 

The non exercise fee in this case was also 10m dollars, but it also fully guaranteed his new salary for 2018 for the amount of 11m in guarantees. 

 

By claiming the option bonus and not using the non exercise portion of his contract language they saved 5m in salary this season as well as 1m in guarantees. 

By converting said bonus into a signing bonus it gives the team the option of recovery if he should retire. 

 

   Everyone, and I.mean EVERYONE, needs to read this and all of the this posters information in this thread. He’s the only one who has it correct. 

  I went over this exact same scenario at least 10 times over the past couple months. But people kept putting their heads in the sand, and claiming “we have an out” He was always guaranteed 25M. 13M signing, 10M guaranteed option bonus, and first two years salary at 1M each. Sooner or Later, we have to take at least that much of a hit on the cap. Sportrac was always wrong on their numbers. Which I explained numerous times. 

  And blaming Hurney is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. He had no choice. Blaming him just shows how ignorant a person was to the situation, and still are. 

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Posted February 26, 2018

   On 2/26/2018 at 7:07 PM,  Mr. Scot said: 

We already knew he'd be here this season.  Not having the out to cut him after this year is something I can't see as a positive.

Regardless, these decisions are gonna be getting made by someone different next year anyway.

   Nothing done today changes anything. There was never a reasonable “out”. Which is why I kept telling everyone we haven’t even begun to pay for Matt Kalil yet. Gettleman did this all by himself so Kalil’s cap hit last year could be so low. 

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Posted July 30, 2018

   On 7/30/2018 at 11:03 AM,  Snake said: 

Good thing Hurney locked him up for the next few years. 

 Who? Matt Kalil? 

Hurney hasn’t done one thing in regards to Matt Kalil’s contract, that wasn’t set in stone when Gettleman signed him. 

   

Eh this is borderline “giving praise” but you’re defending him for criticism that some try and blame hurney for not cutting kalil earlier as if there was some out. Guess that’s good enough, you’d surprise me if there was anything positive said about his roster moves since be rehired.

 

edit: wait? Doesn’t seem like these are your quotes 

[MasterAwesome]

3 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

And the vast majority of the league is trash.

The one team where it is out-and-out public knowledge that such a thing is NOT "common practice" is the New England Patriots.  Bill Belichik doesn't seem to lose any sleep over that whole "OH NOEZ!  WHAT IF THE NEXT GUY WE GET TURNS OUT NOT TO BE AS GOOD??!?!?!?!" issue.  He just fugging coaches'em up OR (if they are not amenable to being coached up) moves on to the next piece of the machine.

They seem to be pretty good using that philosophy.

Really? The Patriots? This whole debate is about not utilizing talented players on the roster, right? The Patriots have always been below average in drafting and have a below average roster in terms of talent, but have gotten where they are because of Brady/Belichick. Yeah, the same Brady who was riding the bench and got his first shot only after Drew Bledsoe got injured.

But yeah, let’s talk about the Patriots. They had Eric Rowe starting opposite Stephon Gilmore at cornerback to start the season. Rowe got injured, allowing Jason McCourty to take his spot as the #2 corner, and lo and behold, McCourty outperformed Rowe and helped bolster that secondary. Their #3 Cornerback was Jonathan Jones up until Week 13, where the rookie JC Jackson was finally given his first start over Jones and ended up being quite the revelation for them. Jackson was relegated to the bench for most of the season up to that point, and was only used sparingly if he was used at all.

Oh and their 2nd round rookie cornerback Duke Dawson? Went on IR to start the season but was promoted to the active roster after Week 10....and yet, has been inactive every game since. They have a 2nd round rookie riding their bench. The same team who you said never lets talent ride the bench...yet they have or had 3 talented cornerbacks riding the bench at some point during this season before they were thrust into a starting role. One position group, one season.

[carpanfan96]

I seem to be getting quoted a lot in this thread about the Kalil contract. 

 

So here's the deal

 

Kalil had 25m guaranteed when he signed his contract. Part of that 25m was his option bonus. His option bonus was set where if it wasnt selected his salary for 2018 season would stay at 11m and become fully guaranteed. Electing to use the option dropped his base salary down to 1m and the 10m would become a option bonus paid over 4 years. The only thing Hurney did was turn the Option bonus into a signing bonus. The only thing that did was protect the Panthers if he decided to retire. His guaranteed money in 2019 is guaranteed for injury as well and becomes fully guaranteed on the third day of the new season. 

I've proven this already in another thread this offseason. overthecap and numerous other sites had his contract wrong because it was submitted to the NFLPA wrong originally. 

[Cpt slay a ho]

1 hour ago, carpanfan96 said:

I seem to be getting quoted a lot in this thread about the Kalil contract. 

 

So here's the deal

 

Kalil had 25m guaranteed when he signed his contract. Part of that 25m was his option bonus. His option bonus was set where if it wasnt selected his salary for 2018 season would stay at 11m and become fully guaranteed. Electing to use the option dropped his base salary down to 1m and the 10m would become a option bonus paid over 4 years. The only thing Hurney did was turn the Option bonus into a signing bonus. The only thing that did was protect the Panthers if he decided to retire. His guaranteed money in 2019 is guaranteed for injury as well and becomes fully guaranteed on the third day of the new season. 

I've proven this already in another thread this offseason. overthecap and numerous other sites had his contract wrong because it was submitted to the NFLPA wrong originally. 

We had a bet that toomers hasn’t said anything positive about hurney, he used quotes from another thread to prove so, I don’t think anyone here is trying to reharsh the original debate