4-3 vs. 3-4: What moves do you make for the front 7?

[Icege]

The buzz around town is that the team is considering transitioning to a base 3-4 from the lock established 4-3 that the franchise has ran.

Some factors to look at that would go into this situation:

1. Current DL under contract for 2019: Kawann Short, Vernon Butler, Marquis Haynes, Efe Obada, Mario Addison, and Dontari Poe
2. Current LB under contract for 2019: Luke Kuechly, Shaq Thompson, Jermaine Carter Jr, Andre Smith
3. Current reserve contracts for 2019: Elijah Qualls (DT), Woodrow Hamilton (DT) Brandon Chubb (LB), Antwione Williams (LB)
4. Current CAR free agents for 2019: Bryan Cox Jr (DE), Wes Horton (DE), Julius Peppers (DE), Kyle Love (DT), Thomas Davis (LB), David Mayo (LB), Jared Norris (LB), Ben Jacobs (LB)
5. Current EDGE free agents for 2019: 

1. Of the players under contract, Dontari Poe is a prime candidate for post-6/1 cut due to the $6M in cap space that would free up. Mario Addison would also free up $7.25M if cut, giving the team over $20M in cap space when including a post-6/1 cut of Matt Kalil. These seem like mutually exclusive cuts: if we go 3-4 we retain Poe, if we go 4-3 we retain Addison. However, should the team find themselves selecting Dexter Lawrence at #16 they're afforded the financial benefits from releasing Poe while still retaining the flexibility of a 4-3 (due to Lawrence's time @ Clemson next to Wilkins) or a 3-4 (Lawrence is big enough to play NT). With Vernon Butler on the cheap for one more season and Kawann Short still getting a chunk of change, both players could be put on the field as 3-4 DEs next to Lawrence.

2. Tremendous flexibility here to play in either formation. Some folks fear that Luke would not be what he is, but he will succeed regardless of formation.

3. I really don't have much to contribute here. I could go and look at their backgrounds I guess, but there isn't really much here that contributes to the whole base discussion outside of Antwione WIlliams being a 4-3 OLB? Inconsequential nonetheless.

4. Kyle Love has experience as an NT in a 3-4 from his time in NE, and he played exceedingly well in a reserve position for us. Bryan Cox Jr has also shown to be in the right place in the right time and making the occasional splash play as well as a rotational DE that can play DT. He can also play back-up DE in a 3-4. Wes Horton also fits this mold, but I cannot see him and Cox Jr both being on the roster (though with the 1yr extension of Obada, maybe Horton comes back instead of Cox Jr? Maybe neither does?). David Mayo is a player that I see more than likely walking, but could also see him being retained to play that ILB thumper role as well as contribute on ST.

5. Here's where things get a little interesting... There are some free agent options at the edge rusher positions to allow the Panthers to go in direction. Some example of guys hitting the market are Clay Matthews, Derrick Morgan, KJ Wright, TD, Clowney, TSuggs, Anthony Barr, Shaq Barrett, Shane Ray, Dee Ford, Pernell McPhee, Anthony Chickillo, Jeremiah Attaochu, Zeke Ansah, DeMarcus Lawrence, Cameron Wake, Dante Fowler Jr, Muhammad Wilkerson, Aaron Lynch, Bruce Irvin, Frank Clark, Datone Jones, and Trey Flowers. Tepper has already spoken on taking impact free agent guys when available, which I expect translates to us relying on the draft BUT we can make some splashes still.

 

In the end, I think our best bet is to luck out for Dexter Lawrence and then using free agency to keep our options available. If we go 3-4, then somebody like Clowney would be worth the investment. If we go 4-3, then maybe double dipping on Trey Flowers and Aaron Lynch could work out.

What would you do if going 4-3, and what would you do if you went 3-4 instead in regards to the front 7?

[PantherNation123]

I'll say it again, but switching to a 3-4 would make our defense markedly worse for at least 2 years.  We just don't currently have the pieces for it.  Yes, we could draft some and pick some up in FA, but even then we wouldn't have enough talent or depth.

I personally prefer a 4-3 but am open to change.  Because of the time it would take to get fully up and running in a 3-4, I seriously doubt it will happen, considering the urgency Ron has to win now, or BYE BYE

[Shocker]

24 minutes ago, PantherNation123 said:

I'll say it again, but switching to a 3-4 would make our defense markedly worse for at least 2 years.  We just don't currently have the pieces for it.  Yes, we could draft some and pick some up in FA, but even then we wouldn't have enough talent or depth.

I personally prefer a 4-3 but am open to change.  Because of the time it would take to get fully up and running in a 3-4, I seriously doubt it will happen, considering the urgency Ron has to win now, or BYE BYE

Meh, we can pick up quicker than that.  3-4 is a good move IMO.  

[Sub Zero]

7 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Meh, we can pick up quicker than that.  3-4 is a good move IMO.  

Why do you feel that way?? When has a scheme change been easy to do?

Hell a coordinator change most times take half a season to a year.  Plus add in the fact we're not flushed with cash to go out and buy the best  players to fit this.. And even if we did it still will take time to acclimate guys playing with each other..

I just don't get why some ppl here think this is easy to do and have no references of it being done easily??

[Sub Zero]

39 minutes ago, PantherNation123 said:

I'll say it again, but switching to a 3-4 would make our defense markedly worse for at least 2 years.  We just don't currently have the pieces for it.  Yes, we could draft some and pick some up in FA, but even then we wouldn't have enough talent or depth.

I personally prefer a 4-3 but am open to change.  Because of the time it would take to get fully up and running in a 3-4, I seriously doubt it will happen, considering the urgency Ron has to win now, or BYE BYE

I can see maybe running some hybrid sets.  Maybe getting a few specialized personnel but a full scheme change will almost certainly end up being a step back atleast for a year...

[LinvilleGorge]

No matter what, I expect at least two new players on the DL next season. At least.

[Sub Zero]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

No matter what, I expect at least two new players on the DL next season. At least.

I agree .. I can see 3 if we work it right using FA and the draft..

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

I agree .. I can see 3 if we work it right using FA and the draft..

Yep, I could definitely see drafting two plus adding a pretty decent FA. Our DL is ancient by NFL standards. Virtually all of our actual contributors are 30+ or very near it. 

[TheMaulClaw]

Well I think Addison would actually be a great fit at OLB in a 3-4 which is probably a more natural position for him then what he's currently playing. 

Ideally I'd like to see the 4-3 for one more year.  Our personnel is developed around it and I did see a marked improvement when Rivera took over the playcalling on D.  It's also prevents us from having a lame duck coach.  

However if we stink it up next season, the time will be ripe to change.  

I still like bringing in Clowney because he's probably best suited to play in a 4-3 anyway. That's what he played in college and if we were to switch to the 3-4 we're still all set with him. 

Hypothetically we'd have to trade Kuechly if we switched.  I'm not ready to do that...but if we got a Khalil Mack sort of deal for him...it would be hard.

[JARROD]

Ron can’t adjust personnel— only the play calls.

so either we get guys that exactly fit a 3-4 and maybe Ron has a 2015 or he gets guys that are “almost”— they will look like busts and Ron will make excuses losing....

so if you are going to propose the switch and how,..

get the best 3-4 alignment guys possible—-

almost will mean no playoffs or Super Bowl.... but maybe new coach,...ha

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, JARROD said:

Ron can’t adjust personnel— only the play calls.

so either we get guys that exactly fit a 3-4 and maybe Ron has a 2015 or he gets guys that are “almost”— they will look like busts and Ron will make excuses losing....

so if you are going to propose the switch and how,..

get the best 3-4 alignment guys possible—-

almost will mean no playoffs or Super Bowl.... but maybe new coach,...ha

Coaches always have input on the roster. The GM wants to get players who fit the mold of what the coach wants.

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Well I think Addison would actually be a great fit at OLB in a 3-4 which is probably a more natural position for him then what he's currently playing. 

Ideally I'd like to see the 4-3 for one more year.  Our personnel is developed around it and I did see a marked improvement when Rivera took over the playcalling on D.  It's also prevents us from having a lame duck coach.  

However if we stink it up next season, the time will be ripe to change.  

I still like bringing in Clowney because he's probably best suited to play in a 4-3 anyway. That's what he played in college and if we were to switch to the 3-4 we're still all set with him. 

Hypothetically we'd have to trade Kuechly if we switched.  I'm not ready to do that...but if we got a Khalil Mack sort of deal for him...it would be hard.

Clowney makes me very nervous. I think he's a likely big money FA bust. He's intriguing for sure and the light seems yo have come on for him somewhat in the past two seasons, but still... I wouldn't do it even with our massive needs on the DL. I absolutely expected us to entertain the idea though. How seriously I don't know.

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, PantherNation123 said:

I'll say it again, but switching to a 3-4 would make our defense markedly worse for at least 2 years.  We just don't currently have the pieces for it.  Yes, we could draft some and pick some up in FA, but even then we wouldn't have enough talent or depth.

I personally prefer a 4-3 but am open to change.  Because of the time it would take to get fully up and running in a 3-4, I seriously doubt it will happen, considering the urgency Ron has to win now, or BYE BYE

Maybe we were thinking about it last year with the signing of Poe and drafting of Haynes.

Short/Poe/Butler

Addison/Shaq/Kuechly/Haynes

I am not saying that group will excel but its kind of hard to read Ron and Marty's minds.  Even if you don't like 1-2 of those pieces it should be kind of easy to fill through free agency and the draft.

 

 

[Sub Zero]

25 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Well I think Addison would actually be a great fit at OLB in a 3-4 which is probably a more natural position for him then what he's currently playing. 

Ideally I'd like to see the 4-3 for one more year.  Our personnel is developed around it and I did see a marked improvement when Rivera took over the playcalling on D.  It's also prevents us from having a lame duck coach.  

However if we stink it up next season, the time will be ripe to change.  

I still like bringing in Clowney because he's probably best suited to play in a 4-3 anyway. That's what he played in college and if we were to switch to the 3-4 we're still all set with him. 

Hypothetically we'd have to trade Kuechly if we switched.  I'm not ready to do that...but if we got a Khalil Mack sort of deal for him...it would be hard.

Wait a minute?? I've seen this opinion more than a few times as well.. I don't get it.. Addison is not a 3/4 OLB.. There is more to the job than being a speed rusher.. You also need to be able to drop back in pass coverage and not just zone.. Man to man as well.. Addison has  shown no ability to in that.. 

And if any player on the roster can make this change seamlessly it's Luke..

Size speed and intelligence Luke has it all to be a 3/4 ILB.. Him and Poe are the only players we have to fit that scheme..