When crunch time arrives if it's a coin flip Tepper has to eat the $21M & retain Cam for next season.

[Matt62881]

1 hour ago, raleigh-panther said:

You are also assuming Cam wants to be here 

Dude Cam loves this team, city and all the fans. Carolina is special, I dont think anyone up top stops him from playinf with the team he loves.

[SBiii]

40 minutes ago, Oldmanrivera said:

So do we keep cams stock high for trade because he will be healthy, or do we let him get to a genuine 100% healthy so that he can do what he had been doing with this franchise.

Tepper will gladly pay the short run premium ($21M in this case, $19M net) in order to have the option to capture the potential upside over the next 5-to-7 years.....a textbook example of optionality. 

In the grand scheme of his overall investment in the Panthers, dropping $21M on Cam next season is literally a non-noticeable rounding error (even less so in comparison to his enormous personal wealth).  Further underscoring the situation, the position (not player) on which Tepper is paying premium in order to secure out-year optionality, is the single-most position on the field --- quarterback.  Further to that, the player in question was at one time the league MVP, we ain't talkin' about some glue-horse here. 

At his core Tepper is a value/fundamental investor.....he is not a quant.  So don't let all these bozo local reporters who are breathlessly hyping "analytics" get you scared that big bad tepper might trade Cam for some cut rate price --- in my opinion Tepper's perfectly willing to risk letting the option (Cam in a 1-year time frame) expire worthless in return for the opportunity to capture massive amounts of upside in the 5-7 year time frame. 

(again, all this hinges on Cam be physically and mentally prepared to go) 

 

 

[ickmule]

We have no idea what Tepper

will do. 

[raz]

cam absolutely has a choice to not play on a lame duck contract.  it would be absolutely ridiculous to ask him to.  if that's the team position then that's saying we want you gone.   he doesn't have a choice is the 2nd dumbest thing you've posted.  news flash:  we don't own him.    

[Pantherzack179812]

8 hours ago, SBiii said:

Kinda odd to think about but we are in the same spot as the Panthers were going into the 2011 NFL Draft....

....roll the dice on Cam?  Or not?

Now, a lot of you nut huggers will never admit to it....but you didn't want Cam going into the draft.  You were worried about the stolen laptop, and his crooked Dad, and questionable character, etc....you bozos wanted Gabbert or Locker or blah blah blah....

....I however, knew the Panthers had to draft Cam. 

In fact, one day about 3 weeks before The Draft I bumped into Boomer at lunch on the patio and asked him about the situation, explained my thesis that Cam could possibly revolutionize the position and were the Panthers to skip him they might rue it every week for a decade --- Boomer agreed 100%.  Boomer went on to tell me that not only did he think the Panthers should draft Cam, he further explained that he had checked all his channels/sources and barring some sort of insane trade-up offer from another team (which he did not expect) --- unequivocally the Panthers were going to draft Cameron "a lil' Dab'll do ya" Newton.  Boomer also related that he had recently attended a small event with Cam and he was taken aback at both Cam's size, as well as the way he captivated folks in the room.  Boomer is a very large man (Long Island schoolboy legend), and he said Cam was much bigger than him. 

So, here we are, deja vu all over agian....

....a man of Tepper's wealth cannot afford to decline the $21 million option on Cam and see him go thrive w/ some other franchise --- it really is that simple. 

If there's one thing Tepper understands better than almost any other human being in the world --- it's concept of optionality --- Cam will be with the Panthers in 2020, mark it down.

(again, assumes at crunch time there are coin flip odds of him returning healthy.  if some other automatically disqualifying info comes to light in the meantime all bets are off.)

And he lights it up and we sign him to a 5 year deal as the arm falls off again in 2021. Just explained why he will not be back in Carolina. You can also be that team that let Kyle Allen go elsewhere and he turns out to be Tom Brady and Cam being Drew Bledsoe. I'm telling you that kid is not playing for 500k-1m... If the Panthers do not sign a new deal he will hold out in 2020. It's one or the other at this point.

Read somewhere that made a good point. That 2015 season has helped Cam keep his job, other then that, we have had 1 first round bye besides that season in NINE YEARS. 2017 Cam's arm cost us the NFC South title when he was throwing balls out of bounds vs Atlanta. Cam may be able to throw OK again, but he has peaked, sick of people trying to say he can be better then 2015. IT AINT HAPPENING. 

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

And he lights it up and we sign him to a 5 year deal as the arm falls off again in 2021. Just explained why he will not be back in Carolina. You can also be that team that let Kyle Allen go elsewhere and he turns out to be Tom Brady and Cam being Drew Bledsoe. I'm telling you that kid is not playing for 500k-1m... If the Panthers do not sign a new deal he will hold out in 2020. It's one or the other at this point.

If Allen were to hold out then the team will turn to Grier and not look back.  Allen has no leverage here.

[Pantherzack179812]

13 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

If Allen were to hold out then the team will turn to Grier and not look back.  Allen has no leverage here.

Brock Osweiler got 75 million dollars after getting benched for cripple Peyton Manning... He absolutely has leverage. He is starting 14 games... If he finishes 10-4 you think a team won't sign him long term for ALOT more then 850K? I wouldn't play a damn down for less then 15 million after this year with anything better then 9-5 as a starter. Any NFL team would understand. Grier is trash, people need to quit riding him. If Allen sucks so bad why is Cam 0-2 this year? I thought we are winning in spite of Allen? 

You do know and multiple analysts agree that Grier only made this football team because he was drafted high and Taylor Henicke outplayed him in camp? HE WAS THE FOUR BEST QB IN FREAKING CAMP! Why would you just throw away a QB who is 6-1 as a starter because your buddy Cam is hurt? If we win against the saints and GB then Cam needs to be told to find a new place to go... RBs don't win football games on their own. CMC is 0-8 with Cam in Cam's last starts... but Kyle Allen sucks, and CMC is so good. The defense signed 4 pro bowlers week 3 that Cam didn't have. Also, this pisses off the homers, but I'm not giving MVP to someone who can't knock over a defender instead of running out of bounds when the game is on the line.

 

This play is a MVP play, CMC wins that game and Cam realizes how bad his foot is and we are 6-2 right now talking about NFC South title chances even with a loss to GB... I love the panthers but I'm not a homer, CMC has not done anything yet that has me screaming MVP. 

Final edit... I didn't know it is a crime and persecution for a young QB to have weapons on offense. I guess Kyle Allen is supposed to have Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams in old age and Philly Brown, Ted Ginn, and Lafell as his top 3 receivers to prove he can be a NFL QB. I am astonished that this fanbase is not thrilled at the idea we could potentially have a QB that lasts us YEARS. He is in his early 20s, he is not going to have these issues Cam is having, IMO depending on how this year ends, Kyle over Cam is almost a better investment. You might get Cam back for 4 years... You will have Allen for 15-20. My thing, we will know 2-3 games into 2020 if Allen is trash or not... It's convenient a certain qb about 200 miles down I-85 south is going to be coming out in that draft... You don't think Tepper doesn't have the game in 2017 in his mind when there were more Clemson fans here then Panthers fans in the preseason. I say Cam gets traded to a team and immediately signed for 4 years 120 million and Kyle Allen gets a prove it deal at a fair 7-10 million. Let me ask you this, would you rather have Kyle Allen and Kalil Mack or just Cam Newton? That's the kind of money that would be saved here.

[Jon Snow]

11 minutes ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

Brock Osweiler got 75 million dollars after getting benched for cripple Peyton Manning... He absolutely has leverage. He is starting 14 games... If he finishes 10-4 you think a team won't sign him long term for ALOT more then 850K? I wouldn't play a damn down for less then 15 million after this year with anything better then 9-5 as a starter. Any NFL team would understand. Grier is trash, people need to quit riding him. If Allen sucks so bad why is Cam 0-2 this year? I thought we are winning in spite of Allen? 

You do know and multiple analysts agree that Grier only made this football team because he was drafted high and Taylor Henicke outplayed him in camp? HE WAS THE FOUR BEST QB IN FREAKING CAMP! Why would you just throw away a QB who is 6-1 as a starter because your buddy Cam is hurt? If we win against the saints and GB then Cam needs to be told to find a new place to go... RBs don't win football games on their own. CMC is 0-8 with Cam in Cam's last starts... but Kyle Allen sucks, and CMC is so good. The defense signed 4 pro bowlers week 3 that Cam didn't have. Also, this pisses off the homers, but I'm not giving MVP to someone who can't knock over a defender instead of running out of bounds when the game is on the line.

 

This play is a MVP play, CMC wins that game and Cam realizes how bad his foot is and we are 6-2 right now talking about NFC South title chances even with a loss to GB... I love the panthers but I'm not a homer, CMC has not done anything yet that has me screaming MVP. 

 

 

I never once said Allen sucks or that Grier is some magical savior.  I said that if Allen were to hold out the team will turn to Grier and not look back.  Allen hasn't shown anything that says he's a 15 million/yr qb.  All that ranting doesn't change what is happening with this team.  They drafted Grier because Ron and Hurney think he's the next possible franchise qb.  It's on them if he sucks.  Allen was a gamble that is keeping them competitive until this thing with Newton is settled and Grier proves he's worth the investment.   If Allen proves to be more than what he's shown up until now then we can discuss his leverage.  Right now he has none and to try to predict what he will be is an exercise in futility.

[Pantherzack179812]

8 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I never once said Allen sucks or that Grier is some magical savior.  I said that if Allen were to hold out the team will turn to Grier and not look back.  Allen hasn't shown anything that says he's a 15 million/yr qb.  All that ranting doesn't change what is happening with this team.  They drafted Grier because Ron and Hurney think he's the next possible franchise qb.  It's on them if he sucks.  Allen was a gamble that is keeping them competitive until this thing with Newton is settled and Grier proves he's worth the investment.   If Allen proves to be more than what he's shown up until now then we can discuss his leverage.  Right now he has none and to try to predict what he will be is an exercise in futility.

Vernon Butler was supposed to be the world saving DT we needed, how did that go? Jimmy Clausen was supposed to replace Jake Delhomme, how is that going? He went two whole rounds ahead of Grier. Allen is a gamble when he is a undrafted free agent? Sometimes you get players that you feel pumped about during the draft and when they get to camp they're not all that. Trust me, if Will Grier was ANYWHERE close to Kyle Allen, Allen would've been on the streets in August. Does that not tell you something the team is carrying 3 qbs? They DO NOT trust Will Grier. What does Allen have to do to prove to this team he can be THE GUY. Super Bowl or bust? Cam can have 2 losing season in a row and this board will give him shot after shot just based off a season 4 years ago 3 surgeries later. 10-4 Cam is gone, go ahead and wrap your head around that. If we miss the playoffs at 10-6, not Allen's fault this team started 0-2... 11-3 for him is not unreasonable. Split this next series of two hard road games and if the Saints have locked up HFA in week 17 by beating the 9ers, we would likely destroy their backups at home... Kyle Allen literally has to go 12-2 as a starter to even have this team in contention for the NFC south, but the first 2 losses seem to get thrown on him. I see no reason this team cannot go into Dallas and win in the wild card round and win a divisional round matchup. The NFC east champion is going to be the closet thing to a first round bye. TBH, I'd rather to Dallas then play the Seahawks or Saints at home in the wild card round. The Packers, Saints, 49ers are 7-2 8-1 and 8-0... There's a good chance 12-4 division champions might only be good enough for the #3 seed... We would then get to host the Seahawks or saints... THEN travel to GB or SF... Yea, I'm taking my chances in Dallas or philly lol.

[micnificent28]

Another day another sbii Billy post huh... this is about what I would expect from him. Nut huggers and cam bash foolery. Carry on tho.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, raz said:

cam absolutely has a choice to not play on a lame duck contract.  it would be absolutely ridiculous to ask him to.  if that's the team position then that's saying we want you gone.   he doesn't have a choice is the 2nd dumbest thing you've posted.  news flash:  we don't own him.    

Could you rightly ask the team to give an extension to a player who's barely been healthy for two years, though?

If you saw any other team do that, what would you say about them?

This is part of the problem. The timing of all of this puts the two sides at cross purposes such that it would be unreasonable to ask either side to give.

But unless somebody does, they're parting ways.

[SBiii]

1 hour ago, raz said:

(i) cam absolutely has a choice to not play on a lame duck contract. 

(ii) it would be absolutely ridiculous to ask him to.  if that's the team position then that's saying we want you gone.   

(iii) he doesn't have a choice is the 2nd dumbest thing you've posted.  news flash:  we don't own him.    

(i)  Oh you're 100% correct, he could quit the game entirely after this year.  My position is predicated on the assumption Cam wants to continue to be an NFL player.

(ii)  Both sentences are complete nonsense.  Cam knows he's going to have to play out his last year with no new deal and I believe he will gladly do so.  We shall see.

(iii)  As it goes to has contractual rights for the 2020 NFL season, in fact we do own him.   

 

[SBiii]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

(i)  Could you rightly ask the team to give an extension to a player who's barely been healthy for two years, though?

(ii)  If you saw any other team do that, what would you say about them?

(iii)  This is part of the problem. The timing of all of this puts the two sides at cross purposes such that it would be unreasonable to ask either side to give.

(iv)  But unless somebody does, they're parting ways.

(i)  No.

(ii)  You'd say they made a foolish decision.

(iii)  I'd argue the opposite, Cam's best option is to play on a 1-year deal.  Doing so, and doing well, allows him to capture 2X++ the $benjamins$ in the following 5-years (not to mention control his destiny on where he goes in 2021 if he chooses to leave).

(iv)  I'm taking the other side of your trade.

[Bartin]

The Tepper assumption is ridiculous and only something you would know if you knew him personally or do business with him which I feel extraordinarily safe declaring that you don’t.

He is just as likely to want to receive value from a declining and risky asset while it still holds value as he is to want to gamble 10% of the salary cap to see if that asset can rebound and be worth a substantial future investment.

Also, staying healthy for 1 year in no way proves that Cam can stay healthy for the duration of a 4-5 year extension. That would still be an extremely risky move.

The best reason to keep Cam next year is that you think we have a real legitimate chance to win the Super Bowl if he stays healthy and is willing to play on what is essentially a 1 year prove-it deal with zero long term guarantees.