Changing the coaching and GM philosophy

[Snake]

25 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Pretty big assumption it would be Hurney.

If we were going to get rid of him it probably would have already happened. JS

[Panthercougar68]

Let’s pose a scenario...

would a new coach/GM trade for a current NFL qb even with Cam on the roster.

side bar.

If we talk to Marvin Lewis I will punt a kitten.

[SBiii]

1 hour ago, Snake said:

He's sat out two years He can sit another and force hurney to trade him. We're talking about Hurney not a actual good GM. 

The problem with your thesis is Hurndog is no longer the GM for the Carolina Football Panthers.

Nobody is going to "force" the current GM to do anything, ever.

That said, hopefully Cam's representation aren't so stupid as to suggest he should take such a foolish path....

[SBiii]

37 minutes ago, Snake said:

If we were going to get rid of him it probably would have already happened. JS

Do you think Hurndog will be the GM in 2020? 

Yes, or no?

[SBiii]

6 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're looking at this the wrong way.

(i)  The team would likely be perfectly fine with Newton playing out the last year of his contract with no guarantees.

(ii)  It's Newton's camp that isn't. They want an extension.

Actually he's looking at it exactly the right way.

(i)  Yes they are.  It is the proper course of action.

(ii)  I've seen nothing from Cam's "camp" suggesting he is considering a holdout.  Can you point to any sort of documented comments by his representation as such?

[SBiii]

1 hour ago, Peon Awesome said:

But what avenues does Cam have to force an extension? He can hold out, but then the Panthers are under no obligation to give him the contract, in which case he doesn't get paid, and the cap space gets credited back to the team in 2021. He can either play the contract or he can walk away from football if the Panthers aren't going to budge. If the Panthers hold firm, I'd think Cam would rather play for $21 million, count on proving he's healthy, and cash in on a decent extension.

Spot on logic & thesis on your part.

Cam would be a complete fool to attempt a holdout, zero chance it would produce a positive outcome for him.

I believe Cam's too smart to attempt something so incredibly foolish --- if his management team proves to be so inept hopefully Cam declines their advice.

[weyco2000]

12 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

What makes that worse for me though is it's by design.

It's why I bring up Buddy Ryan. It's the exact same philosophy. So is skimping on the offensive line because he can run.

If that infuriates people, it probably should.

You're saying Rivera is directly responsible for Cams injuries? He doesn't make personnel decisions in regards to drafting and free agency, once again you're throwing poo against the wall and hoping it sticks.

 

 

[kungfoodude]

5 hours ago, weyco2000 said:

You're saying Rivera is directly responsible for Cams injuries? He doesn't make personnel decisions in regards to drafting and free agency, once again you're throwing poo against the wall and hoping it sticks.

 

 

I am not gonna say that is for sure true but I know that Cam was the only elite player we have on offense and carried the bulk of the load. He's out and the other elite player on offense is having the wheels run off of him. Just saying.....

[kungfoodude]

7 hours ago, Snake said:

If we were going to get rid of him it probably would have already happened. JS

Not necessarily. As Tepper himself stated, he is going to focus on the football side of the operation now that he has the business side in order. That will bring a lot of scrutiny on the front office.

[Prowler2k18]

8 hours ago, raleigh-panther said:

I do not want to see Cam Newton leave this team

if he is mobile, if he still wants to play, and play here, let him. Again, Manning played 3 years after his usefulness and the Broncos won games 

if Newton is mobile and his shoulder  is 80% of what it used to be, he is better than many of the players in that list above.  His price tag is  the lowest .   if he plays well during the year extend him and reward him    If he doesn’t, we know what has to be done but he deserves the opportunity and for the love of god, get a veteran backup 

also, new regime, make getting a damned oline in here a priority   No more excuses  

I’ll say it too  It needs to be said. Rivera and Hurney being gone might be exactly what he needs   fresh eyes. Fresh message   

im well aware that some of the greatest QBs have been let go ..including Manning for Luck but I tell you this, if Newton goes to another team and wins a Super Bowl, people in this town will go ape poo While we plod along with the latest QB that we spent too much to move up and take in the draft 

cam Newton is not just some player.  This is our franchise QB.  A captain and someone who has done more for this community than all the other players combined 

he has earned that chance. 

you think free agents thinking  about coming to Carolina aren’t watching how Cam is handled, think again 

 this. I’m still baffled that we went into this season with a veteran backup QB - especially with McCown living in the area - but I digress.

[BrianS]

Cam doesn't hold any cards here, not sure why so many people think he does.

The bottom line here is that Cam is a QB who hasn't been fully healthy since 2016.  I don't care who you are, if you're three plus years removed from your last fully healthy season you don't hold many cards.  The "why" of his health isn't important at this stage of his career.

There is no argument that Cam showed significant growth at the beginning of 2018.  There is no argument that *any* QB would have been injured by "the hit" in Pittsburgh.  If you look at just the first 8 games of 2018, and double those stats, Cam would have had a career year.  But this is not a question of potential ability.  Everyone understands how good Cam can be.

This is a question of whether a 31 year old QB who hasn't been fully healthy in 3 years, who has taken more hits and abuse than any QB probably ever, can get healthy and *stay* healthy.  If the answer is "Yes", then Cam may still have another MVP year left in the tank.  But as an owner or GM, you can't risk destroying your salary cap for the next few years if you're wrong.

Offer Cam an incentive laden extension?  Absolutely, if he wants it.  If he doesn't, then you already have him on a one year prove it deal.

Consider the possibilities for Cam if he chooses to hold out.

1.  Cam holds out and refuses to show up at all.  He loses nothing but a year of his life and he still doesn't have a new contract because he has to show up in order to get out of that last year.  At that point, it's spring of 2021, Cam hasn't played a game in two years and hasn't been fully healthy in five.  And he still needs to play a year to complete his current contract, if the Panthers still want him.  This is not a situation Cam wants, I'm sure.

2.  Cam holds out and shows up midway through the season, just in time to say he fulfilled his contract.  Now he's gambling that he can look good, and be healthy despite not spending any time working with the team in more than a year *and* that the team is even willing to put him on the field.  That's a horrible gamble.  Almost no chance of a good outcome.  At that point the team realizes they aren't going to get him back, so they have zero incentive to play him.  This puts him spring of 2021, with no games played in two years, and no evidence he can stay healthy.

Cam just doesn't hold very many cards at this point.  It's not about his potential at this point.  It's all about his health.  I mean, it sucks that this is where we are.  Had Cam been healthy this year, the conversation is likely completely different.

[Snake]

8 hours ago, SBiii said:

The problem with your thesis is Hurndog is no longer the GM for the Carolina Football Panthers.

Nobody is going to "force" the current GM to do anything, ever.

That said, hopefully Cam's representation aren't so stupid as to suggest he should take such a foolish path....

When was he fired? 

[Snake]

8 hours ago, SBiii said:

Do you think Hurndog will be the GM in 2020? 

Yes, or no?

Yes, if he wasn't going to be he would already be fired. 

[Snake]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Not necessarily. As Tepper himself stated, he is going to focus on the football side of the operation now that he has the business side in order. That will bring a lot of scrutiny on the front office.

That's a vague reasoning to think he will can him. I really want him gone, I just don't think he gets canned with Rivera. They both could actually keep there job and last year is a perfect example of that.