PSL Owners Losing Seats for Luxury Suites

[Squirrel]

4 hours ago, Happy Panther said:

I got a call from the Panthers at 6:15 tonight and already had the psl map up. Thank you for that Panthers. I asked the very nice girl if she had been getting yelled at she surprisingly said no. But I think she was lying because when i was conciliatory at every angle she seemed to relax and sigh in relief.

I told her I wanted to get two premium seats and turn in my other two tickets for cash. A1? Nope. A2? nope. B1? Nope. 

Map for reference https://www.panthers.com/tickets/psls

Fine how about Club 2? Yep. Fine. So i am paying $400 a game for nothing. But there are reasons this works for me.

Also they are sending me a check for $6300 so that pays for most of year one tickets...

 

Did you ask what a full buyout would be just curious?

 

Hopefully the new seats work for you. 

[Pantherzack179812]

2 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

That's not what this expert on sports economics has to say on the subject:

https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/

The notion that stadiums benefit the economy is not based in reality. It's a nice story that people who want public funds regurgitate ad naseum. There is zero factual evidence to back it and considerable evidence to the contrary.

So the montly crue stadium tour, Garth Brooks, and Billy Joel; all three with ravid fanbases drawing a total of 210,000 people who would've not been spending big money in Charlotte otherwise doesn't make a difference? How about the taxes on 720,000 a year NFL tickets (72,000x10) and concessions the city wouldn't of had? Those hotels that would've been empty those said nights are full, people are buying stuff downtown. It is not always about the money gained or loss, the NFL and concerts stimulate the economy, it might not give the city a return on their investment, but it indeed does. There is a pretty damn big difference between California and Charlotte. Half of that study kept talking about areas in California... it probably doesn't make a big difference there, the state has 3 damn NFL teams and 3 NBA teams, if they lose one it doesn't kill them. The Panthers have helped grow Charlotte, sometimes the City needs to chip in. The NFL, the owner, and the city usually all three chip in the get it built. BOA is starting to look old, go attend other NFL stadiums and see the difference. We're moving towards a day where sitting at a football game in the pouring rain in 30 degree weather is not appealing anymore, a new stadium is coming.

 

If the city gets nothing out of it, why don't they tell NFL teams to buzz off? The NFL helps grow the national name for a stadium... If we hosted the Super Bowl, that puts Charlotte in a national spotlight... Let's say the cities pay nothing... Teachers aren't getting raises. Did the St. Louis teachers get 10,000 raises when the Rams declined the cities final offer for a new stadium? The city gets a return on their investment and people are drawn to the city... This study completely ignores that.

 

"Noll said that because football stadiums are used so infrequently – two preseason games, eight regular season games and possibly a couple of playoff games – they do not realize a large economic benefit from those games alone. Realizing this, the San Francisco 49ers’ new Levi’s Stadium, which opened last year, has played host to several other events, including concerts and college football, soccer and hockey games."

He goes on later to say that NBA stadiums host more events so that means more money. If a NBA arena hosts 90 events a year at an average of 12,000 attendance (Most NBA games have a lot of empty seats. That is 1,080,000 tickets sold... Including $7 seats for weeknight NBA games...

 

NFL tickets cost $70+ face value... 10 home games draws 720,000 tickets sold in a 72,000 person stadium... 10 concerts draw 720,000 more... You do the math...

 

[1of10Charnatives]

19 minutes ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

So the montly crue stadium tour, Garth Brooks, and Billy Joel; all three with ravid fanbases drawing a total of 210,000 people who would've not been spending big money in Charlotte otherwise doesn't make a difference? How about the taxes on 720,000 a year NFL tickets (72,000x10) and concessions the city wouldn't of had? Those hotels that would've been empty those said nights are full, people are buying stuff downtown. It is not always about the money gained or loss, the NFL and concerts stimulate the economy, it might not give the city a return on their investment, but it indeed does. There is a pretty damn big difference between California and Charlotte. Half of that study kept talking about areas in California... it probably doesn't make a big difference there, the state has 3 damn NFL teams and 3 NBA teams, if they lose one it doesn't kill them. The Panthers have helped grow Charlotte, sometimes the City needs to chip in. The NFL, the owner, and the city usually all three chip in the get it built. BOA is starting to look old, go attend other NFL stadiums and see the difference. We're moving towards a day where sitting at a football game in the pouring rain in 30 degree weather is not appealing anymore, a new stadium is coming.

 

If the city gets nothing out of it, why don't they tell NFL teams to buzz off? The NFL helps grow the national name for a stadium... If we hosted the Super Bowl, that puts Charlotte in a national spotlight... Let's say the cities pay nothing... Teachers aren't getting raises. Did the St. Louis teachers get 10,000 raises when the Rams declined the cities final offer for a new stadium? The city gets a return on their investment and people are drawn to the city... This study completely ignores that.

 

"Noll said that because football stadiums are used so infrequently – two preseason games, eight regular season games and possibly a couple of playoff games – they do not realize a large economic benefit from those games alone. Realizing this, the San Francisco 49ers’ new Levi’s Stadium, which opened last year, has played host to several other events, including concerts and college football, soccer and hockey games."

He goes on later to say that NBA stadiums host more events so that means more money. If a NBA arena hosts 90 events a year at an average of 12,000 attendance (Most NBA games have a lot of empty seats. That is 1,080,000 tickets sold... Including $7 seats for weeknight NBA games...

 

NFL tickets cost $70+ face value... 10 home games draws 720,000 tickets sold in a 72,000 person stadium... 10 concerts draw 720,000 more... You do the math...

 

This has all been thoroughly debated examined and tested by people who are experts in the field. Noll is not one guy out on a limb. The bottom line is the consensus amongst respected experts is that sports stadiums do not provide the economic impact they claim to.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/page1-econ/2017-05-01/the-economics-of-subsidizing-sports-stadiums/

https://ritholtz.com/2017/07/economics-subsidizing-sports-stadiums/

That article was written by a member of the Federal Reserve. Surely he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to money and economic impact. Here are a few quotes from that article I would particularly draw to your attention:

 "When surveyed, 86 percent of economists agreed that “local and state governments in the U.S. should eliminate subsidies to professional sports franchises.”

"In a 2017 poll, 83 percent of the economists surveyed agreed that “Providing state and local subsidies to build stadiums for professional sports teams is likely to cost the relevant taxpayers more than any local economic benefits that are generated.”

It's not that stadiums don't bring in any money, or have any economic impact, no one is arguing that. But the reality is that the numbers show that impact is less than the cost of the subsidies provided, by large margins. This is why the vast majority of economists say they should be discontinued.

Your math about tickets is irrelevant because all of that revenue goes into the private owners pockets. The point is that fewer games means fewer times people are coming to the area and having that impact you are talking about. That's why more games has more impact. Ticket prices and sales are irrelevant because we're talking about the impact on the economy, not actual ticket sales. It's not about how many tickets are bought at what prices, it's about how many times people stay in hotels, eat in restaurants, etc etc etc. And the people who measure these things and look at the data far more than you or I say it's not close, stadiums are a bad deal for taxpayers as an economic investment.

Bottom line, if a cardiologist tells you you'd better stop eating fried foods or you're not likely to last another five years, do you do what the highly trained expert says, or do you sit there and argue with him about whether the burgers you cook on the grill should count or not?

[Happy Panther]

17 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Did you ask what a full buyout would be just curious?

 

Hopefully the new seats work for you. 

Thanks man.

As for the buyout its around $3150 per ticket so i would have gotten another $6300. I didn't try to negotiate.

I loved the end zone seats but a new view should be fun.

[Pantherzack179812]

14 hours ago, Happy Panther said:

Thanks man.

As for the buyout its around $3150 per ticket so i would have gotten another $6300. I didn't try to negotiate.

I loved the end zone seats but a new view should be fun.

Glad someone is having a positive view on this. 

[1of10Charnatives]

15 hours ago, Happy Panther said:

Thanks man.

As for the buyout its around $3150 per ticket so i would have gotten another $6300. I didn't try to negotiate.

I loved the end zone seats but a new view should be fun.

As always,  this man has his head on straight and doesn't get riled up over everything. Way to be positive sir.

[Rich R]

Not fairly compensated.  40 cents on the dollar of what the Panthers would sell them for if someone bought straight from the organization.  Tepper made his money via Hedge funds and is using those same concepts with life long season ticket holders.  They are encouraging displaced PSL  owners to upgrade to better seats and therefore collect more money for higher costing season tickets that were forfeited (abandoned) by previous PSL owners that wanted out.  

[dave-o]

On 1/24/2020 at 9:46 AM, Bronn said:

But PSL ownership does not a better fan make.

 

 

lol @ "sacrifice" btw

 

sounds about white

 

Racist....   You are basically saying black folks could never afford a PSL....  

[Pantherzack179812]

13 minutes ago, Rich R said:

Not fairly compensated.  40 cents on the dollar of what the Panthers would sell them for if someone bought straight from the organization.  Tepper made his money via Hedge funds and is using those same concepts with life long season ticket holders.  They are encouraging displaced PSL  owners to upgrade to better seats and therefore collect more money for higher costing season tickets that were forfeited (abandoned) by previous PSL owners that wanted out.  

The Panthers almost never sell those lower deck seats. If they do, people default within one to two years. Don't take the upgrade offer to silver club, you can get silver club seats for like 1,000 a piece because people don't want to pay the $3,000 season ticket cost anymore. The team does the 48 month payment plan, thus they can charge more. People buy lower deck seats for like 20,000 for 2 pay for 2 years and quit making the payments. 

[ChapelHeel80]

On 1/25/2020 at 12:17 PM, bigdog10 said:

Spoke to a friend this morning who lost their seats. They were moved two sections over in the lower level. No additional charge but they are now in the corner end zone as opposed to near the goal posts. 
 

Biggest bummer for them is that they lose out on sitting with the same people that they sat with for 25 years. 
 

one other note, the ticket executive said adding these bunkers and other upgrades will likely  extend the useful purpose of this stadium by 10-15 years. Now whether that pertains to the panthers or the soccer team is anyone’s guess. 

I completely agree on the life extension of BofA. I think Tepper has realized he can get a Final Four here in relative short order, by making a few upgrades and doming the existing structure. If you look around the perimeter of the stadium, there’s room to build an entirely new exterior that would include a dome. That gets you year round concert capabilities, a Final Four, and probably into the College Football Playoff conversation. Frankly, I don’t even want to host a Super Bowl, but that might be on the table too. All of this without having to convince tax payers and PSL owners to pony up. 

[TipToeTyler]

1 hour ago, Rich R said:

Not fairly compensated.  40 cents on the dollar of what the Panthers would sell them for if someone bought straight from the organization.  Tepper made his money via Hedge funds and is using those same concepts with life long season ticket holders.  They are encouraging displaced PSL  owners to upgrade to better seats and therefore collect more money for higher costing season tickets that were forfeited (abandoned) by previous PSL owners that wanted out.  

I'm with you here.  If they would have offered dollar for dollar, $7500 a seat it's a different story.  40 cents on the dollar or moved to a corner, higher up or ridiculously priced club isn't fair compensation. 

[dave-o]

Wonder if these new seats will include this new trend in stadiums...  WTH would want to sit below playing surface?

 

[Waldo]

It would be funny if the fans started throwing chicken bones like they used to at Rockingham. That crap was unreal but i would laugh so hard if these suites got that treatment.

[PantherFanInPhilly]

11 minutes ago, dave-o said:

Wonder if these new seats will include this new trend in stadiums...  WTH would want to sit below playing surface?

 

I mean, can they see ANYTHING at that view? Backs of everyone on the sidelines? Seems ridiculous.