Also from Jourdan's mailbag...

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, TheRed said:

I recall week 2 when mister everything couldn't get us one yard for the win at home.

Ya still need a QB bud.

For that matter he didn't get in to the end zone against Green Bay either. What a stupid retort though. It will be interesting if we sign him to an extension or restructure his contract given he had already outplayed his current contract to avoid a Julio Jones situation.

[TheRed]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

For that matter he didn't get in to the end zone against Green Bay either. What a stupid retort though. It will be interesting if we sign him to an extension or restructure his contract given he had already outplayed his current contract to avoid a Julio Jones situation.

Just because it's a truth you don't want to hear doesn't mean it's a stupid retort. It's what actually happened. We only won 5 games last year and ended up arguably the worst team in the league, at least the NFC.

Julio Jones, really? Are we actually doing this?

[Madwolf]

If you can't afford to sign CmC with what's left of this offense then you have no business making impact decisions for an NFL Franchise. Who else on the offensive side of the ball is indispensable? You can make a strong argument for Moore  and Turner. 

Even with Cam Newton healthy there is way too little talent on the current offensive depth chart to make a reasonable argument for letting CmC walk or trade him. 

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Just because it's a truth you don't want to hear doesn't mean it's a stupid retort. It's what actually happened. We only won 5 games last year and ended up arguably the worst team in the league, at least the NFC.

Julio Jones, really? Are we actually doing this?

Again the personnel can be poorly coached and we can struggle. Or injuries to players can derail a team with talent. One point before I leave. Has the dialogue been we have no.talent or this team seriously underachieved it potential. Everything I have read from writers to players suggests the second. Marty is responsible for the first. The coaches and players are responsible for the second.  Just because blame rises to the top doesn't mean that there wasn't plenty to go around.

[GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER]

29 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

The point being McCaffrey had a Top 3 historic season and we still went 5-11 shows the value of running backs. Cam has been good to great to elite throughout the years. His best year we were in the super bowl. Maccaffrey’s best year we go 5-11.

you can’t win with just a dominant rb getting paid 100+ million. We need trenches fixed and a talented rookie Qb on a rookie deal along with that. We have none of those things. So handing cmc a mega contract seems pointless especially considering how long it’s seemingly going to take to get those two things fixed.

honestly it’s made me wish we never drafted him. We are stuck in a very tough spot organizationally. We make a wrong move and it could have a decade long affect.

bingo

[thefuzz]

35 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

The point being McCaffrey had a Top 3 historic season and we still went 5-11 shows the value of running backs. Cam has been good to great to elite throughout the years. His best year we were in the super bowl. Maccaffrey’s best year we go 5-11.

you can’t win with just a dominant rb getting paid 100+ million. We need trenches fixed and a talented rookie Qb on a rookie deal along with that. We have none of those things. So handing cmc a mega contract seems pointless especially considering how long it’s seemingly going to take to get those two things fixed.

honestly it’s made me wish we never drafted him. We are stuck in a very tough spot organizationally. We make a wrong move and it could have a decade long affect.

The point I was making, is that we had Super Man at the most important position is all of sports and couldn't manage more than 3 winning seasons out of 9 with him as the starter....you simply cannot hold the Panthers record last season against CMC.

We are talking about one of the most dominate QB's to ever play the game, and we never had back to back winning seasons.....QB, not RB.

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

The point I was making, is that we had Super Man at the most important position is all of sports and couldn't manage more than 3 winning seasons out of 9 with him as the starter....you simply cannot hold the Panthers record last season against CMC.

We are talking about one of the most dominate QB's to ever play the game, and we never had back to back winning seasons.....QB, not RB.

At the end of the day CMC can't hand the ball off to himself or throw to himself.

There are a number of huddlers revealing what actually matters to them. Apparently it isn't winning.

[TheRumGone]

48 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

The point I was making, is that we had Super Man at the most important position is all of sports and couldn't manage more than 3 winning seasons out of 9 with him as the starter....you simply cannot hold the Panthers record last season against CMC.

We are talking about one of the most dominate QB's to ever play the game, and we never had back to back winning seasons.....QB, not RB.

He’s only really played 7 years of football because of injury. I still go back to cmc best year 5-11 being beyond dominant. Historic. 3 players in nfl history dominant.

cams best year 15-1 dominant. I wouldn’t say cam was dominant but for 3 years. 2011 2015 2017. 2012 he had that bit of regression/was good. Still learning and growing. 2013 he was asked to be a game manager basically still learning/growing/our team did not let him do his thing. 2014 was the worst oline I have ever seen in my life. Worse than this past year. 2016 headhunting/injuries. 2018,2019 injury plagued. 
 

I don’t hold it against cmc I hold it against his position.

[Catamount]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Again he isn't a running back. He is mister everything and was an All-pro at 2 positions in the same season. Of course you can build around him.  QBs are considered so valuable because they touch the ball on every offensive play. With him accounting for 75% of the offense he is every bit as important as whoever we bring in at QB.  You are clearly alone.on this one.  He is right now the face of the franchise.

I totally understand what Red is saying.  First of all let me make it clear that I think McCaffery is a beast and the best asset at the RB position in the league and that it is very well possible that we can build this team around him after a record breaking contract.  I'm only saying that we should consider the option of trading him (no we wouldn't cut him as someone mentioned earlier, that would make no sense)  That said, take a look around the league at teams with RB's with massive contract:

Gurley/Rams- He can run and catch passes, how'd they do this year?  Talk about salary cap hell and no draft picks for YEARS...

Zeke/Cowgirls- He can run and catch passes.  Underachievers who have a bunch of players to sign and the numbers are going to add up

If last year is the baseline, we are going to run this poor dude into a pile of dust in no time.  Yes he's putting up video game numbers but the object of the game isn't to have CMC put up 400 all purpose yards a game and end up 5-11, it's to win games and make the playoffs and it takes a team to do that. 

There is little to no evidence that this is a "lock move to set up up for success" as everyone seems to think.  If it happened, I'd love it but just take a look and examples around the league and you'll probably come up with next to nothing of this.  It is a horrible situation and by no means do I want it when my heart is speaking-  he's a generational talent, all world dude on and off the field, leader, etc.  My brain tells me that it should be on the table and not a taboo subject.  

Happy to hear anyone's thoughts but this is just my 2 cents.

[Catamount]

52 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Again the personnel can be poorly coached and we can struggle. Or injuries to players can derail a team with talent. One point before I leave. Has the dialogue been we have no.talent or this team seriously underachieved it potential. Everything I have read from writers to players suggests the second. Marty is responsible for the first. The coaches and players are responsible for the second.  Just because blame rises to the top doesn't mean that there wasn't plenty to go around.

Agreed.  We underachieved for sure last year.......last couple years.  Missed opportunities

[Madwolf]

36 minutes ago, TheRed said:

At the end of the day CMC can't hand the ball off to himself or throw to himself.

There are a number of huddlers revealing what actually matters to them. Apparently it isn't winning.

So we trade CMC, and draft a QB, who may or may not turn out to be any good. Whose he throwing the ball too besides Moore? Whose running the ball and taking pressure off of him?

Why would you not keep a very young, very talented piece of your offense on board to help out whoever eventually becomes the QB?

 

[Paa Langfart]

Would rather trade CMC for a couple picks or an o or d lineman or a combination therof  than give him some big fat contract that we will be sorry about 2 years down the road.  Why cant you guys remember the disastrous contracts Hurney  and company handed out to delo/jstew ?  It hamstrung this team for years.

[Madwolf]

Just now, Paa Langfart said:

Would rather trade CMC for a couple picks or an o or d lineman or a combination therof  than give him some big fat contract that we will be sorry about 2 years down the road.  Why cant you guys remember the disastrous contracts Hurney  and company handed out to delo/jstew ?  It hamstrung this team for years.

Because it made no sense to sign 2 RBs on the same team to Top 5 money for that much time. Especially not one with an injury history like JStew.

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, Catamount said:

I totally understand what Red is saying.  First of all let me make it clear that I think McCaffery is a beast and the best asset at the RB position in the league and that it is very well possible that we can build this team around him after a record breaking contract.  I'm only saying that we should consider the option of trading him (no we wouldn't cut him as someone mentioned earlier, that would make no sense)  That said, take a look around the league at teams with RB's with massive contract:

Gurley/Rams- He can run and catch passes, how'd they do this year?  Talk about salary cap hell and no draft picks for YEARS...

Zeke/Cowgirls- He can run and catch passes.  Underachievers who have a bunch of players to sign and the numbers are going to add up

If last year is the baseline, we are going to run this poor dude into a pile of dust in no time.  Yes he's putting up video game numbers but the object of the game isn't to have CMC put up 400 all purpose yards a game and end up 5-11, it's to win games and make the playoffs and it takes a team to do that. 

There is little to no evidence that this is a "lock move to set up up for success" as everyone seems to think.  If it happened, I'd love it but just take a look and examples around the league and you'll probably come up with next to nothing of this.  It is a horrible situation and by no means do I want it when my heart is speaking-  he's a generational talent, all world dude on and off the field, leader, etc.  My brain tells me that it should be on the table and not a taboo subject.  

Happy to hear anyone's thoughts but this is just my 2 cents.

McCaffrey isn't like any other back in the league so comparing him to Gurley or anyone else is an insult. Only three guys have done what he did and none in year 3. Truth he missed doing it in year 2 by 170 yards receiving  and didn't play week 17. He has shown to be more durable than any other back and has carried the offense already. Given he is only 24 he has likely 6 or 7 years left at a very high level. The problem is that  trades these days for veteran players don't net you enough to make it worthwhile. He was already a high 1. To get enough value given how he has outperformed all expectations would require 2 ones because we would have to replace his 1300 yards as a running back and 1000 yards as a player with 2 guys.  Nope that is just crazy talk. No one is thinking trade him but folks here. The sames one saying trade him are the same saying we need to tank for a high draft pick. I disagree with that as well.