The Offensive Line

[DaveThePanther2008]

I'm not here to argue whether we should or shouldn't draft a LT. My opinion is we'll draft Brown if he is available. 

I think Daley and Little have shown enough promise to fill that need at OT.

The main reason for this post is. How much do you attribute our OLine performance to continuity? When you shuffle players around and around it is difficult to gel together. 

I am in agreement about Paradis wasn't the answer at center. It should tell us just how good Kalil was. Maybe he couldn't make the right calls in protection. 

Taylor and Moton are a good start. Daley and Little have potential. IMO it's not as bad as some think.

[The Huddler]

Its seems silly to me to give up on Greg Little (notably raw coming out of college, needing coaching) After one rookie season with a concussion issue and a coach fired mid season, that you traded up in the 2nd for. That seems incredibly short sighted to me. There were a ton of factors pitted against a raw rookie, and he still showed promise at a position that rookies tend to struggle even with the best circumstances. 

 

 

We gotta give this guy a better shot than that. Let Rhule and his army of coaches get a hold of him and coach him up. We actually have young potential at the OT position. 

 

Go draft a position where theres a huge need, AND theres no young potential. AKA Defensive Line, specifically DT.  

 

if we MUST upgrade left tackle RIGHT NOW, do it via free agency. Drafting another rookie OT that will require coaching to combat a learning curve is not the short term answer many of you want.   

[DaveThePanther2008]

21 minutes ago, The Huddler said:

Its seems silly to me to give up on Greg Little (notably raw coming out of college, needing coaching) After one rookie season with a concussion issue and a coach fired mid season, that you traded up in the 2nd for. That seems incredibly short sighted to me. There were a ton of factors pitted against a raw rookie, and he still showed promise at a position that rookies tend to struggle even with the best circumstances. 

 

 

We gotta give this guy a better shot than that. Let Rhule and his army of coaches get a hold of him and coach him up. We actually have young potential at the OT position. 

 

Go draft a position where theres a huge need, AND theres no young potential. AKA Defensive Line, specifically DT.  

 

if we MUST upgrade left tackle RIGHT NOW, do it via free agency. Drafting another rookie OT that will require coaching to combat a learning curve is not the short term answer many of you want.   

You can also add Daley to that learning curve.  Give him time at guard and he'll have some game time experience should he have to slide to tackle.

[MHS831]

This is sensible.  People who are throwing Little under the bus already do not understand how long it takes an OT to develop. I disagree with the concept of bringing in a vet to play LT--this is a great time to develop players--something RR did only when he was forced to do so,

If Thomas is there, however, you still take him if you think he is the next Jordan Gross. Why?  Moton is in a contract year and he has been average at RT.  Both Little and Daley can play G.  Van Roten is a free agent and Turner is a big contract with inconsistent results.  You solidify the LT spot if you can and then you worry about the rest. Little has some mechanical issues to overcome--if he does, he has all the tools. Daley flashed in college, but he might be a better LG.  If we get rid of Turner, Little would be an ideal RG.   I would not give up on Moton--the best OL we have. 

 

[1of10Charnatives]

3 hours ago, The Huddler said:

Its seems silly to me to give up on Greg Little (notably raw coming out of college, needing coaching) After one rookie season with a concussion issue and a coach fired mid season, that you traded up in the 2nd for. That seems incredibly short sighted to me. There were a ton of factors pitted against a raw rookie, and he still showed promise at a position that rookies tend to struggle even with the best circumstances. 

 

 

We gotta give this guy a better shot than that. Let Rhule and his army of coaches get a hold of him and coach him up. We actually have young potential at the OT position. 

 

Go draft a position where theres a huge need, AND theres no young potential. AKA Defensive Line, specifically DT.  

 

if we MUST upgrade left tackle RIGHT NOW, do it via free agency. Drafting another rookie OT that will require coaching to combat a learning curve is not the short term answer many of you want.   

Normally I’m in favor of being more patient with rookies and I agree Little and Daily have shown some potential. The key word there is some. They have not shown otherworldly potential. Acquiring a starting LT in free agency is put simply not a viable option for the same reason acquiring a franchise Qb the same way is not. Healthy, effective starting LT’s do not hit FA in their prime but once in a blue moon.

The line must be fixed NOW, not whenever Hurney feels like getting around to it, which for a long time was never. Cam is going into his 30’s with significant injury history. I agree that Paradis needs to be replaced but LT is the most important pass pro position. Keep in mind that to be okay with sticking with Daily and Little for now is to be okay with exposing Cam to sub par blind side protection while we wait for them to HOPEFULLY develop beyond just potential. 

In this specific situation, I’m not okay with that. When your house is actively on fire is not the time to be cool with VFD rookies showing up and learning on the job. You need someone who can do the job effectively NOW. I think everyone who wants to see Cam play here beyond just next year should consider fixing LT our most important AND urgent need.

At present the most viable option for that appears to be Andrew Thomas.

[jfra78]

There was an article on Paradis, i think it was Riot Report, talking about how the Panthers were using Paradis.  Basically saying that the coaches were not giving him a chance to get his hands up after snapping the ball.  Other teams use their guards, and we instead had our guards helping our tackles.  Bad coaching may have attributed to many of our oline miscues

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Normally I’m in favor of being more patient with rookies and I agree Little and Daily have shown some potential. The key word there is some. They have not shown otherworldly potential. Acquiring a starting LT in free agency is put simply not a viable option for the same reason acquiring a franchise Qb the same way is not. Healthy, effective starting LT’s do not hit FA in their prime but once in a blue moon.

The line must be fixed NOW, not whenever Hurney feels like getting around to it, which for a long time was never. Cam is going into his 30’s with significant injury history. I agree that Paradis needs to be replaced but LT is the most important pass pro position. Keep in mind that to be okay with sticking with Daily and Little for now is to be okay with exposing Cam to sub par blind side protection while we wait for them to HOPEFULLY develop beyond just potential. 

In this specific situation, I’m not okay with that. When your house is actively on fire is not the time to be cool with VFD rookies showing up and learning on the job. You need someone who can do the job effectively NOW.

At present the most viable option for that appears to be Andrew Thomas.

I see your point, but in Little's case, we just do not know what he would be like with some reps--the concussions are a major concern, and in my opinion, directly related to his mechanical flaws---he is a waist bender and that puts your head on a tee.  DE's are trained to club that head if it becomes a leverage point.  Aside from being a balance issue, keeping your head back is a vision and safety issue as well.

We do not know what we have in him because is not mechanically disciplined.  That could necessitate a move inside to G or retirement.  However, any rookie is going to be a project.  Gross did not come in as a stud LT--played RT rather poorly for a season, having Peppers eat his lunch at practice.  Still, rebuilding a team means learning in the trenches.  If Thomas is the best player, I would take him.  Little and Daley can find work on the OL at the other 4 spots---but I think OT is not our biggest need--when we have KK Short and nobody at DT.

[MHS831]

3 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

There was an article on Paradis, i think it was Riot Report, talking about how the Panthers were using Paradis.  Basically saying that the coaches were not giving him a chance to get his hands up after snapping the ball.  Other teams use their guards, and we instead had our guards helping our tackles.  Bad coaching may have attributed to many of our oline miscues

That is interesting.  I heard one OL coach at a conference say this, and it stuck.  Take it for what it is worth--but he was an OL coach at S Carolina, I think.  He said, "You can have 1 weak OL if the other 4 are good.   If you have 2 weak OL you are in for a long season.  The help factor was his point.  A TE can chip, a RB/FB can help.  You use him to double, etc.  Lat year, we had three poor lineman from C to LT.  Disaster.  How that impacted Paradis?  I;d need to watch some videos, but that is an interesting point.

 

[1of10Charnatives]

As painful as it may be, I’m perfectly willing to suck against the run next year if it is the difference between Cam only playing next year for us or being our qb for another five years at least, and in my mind solving LT is the single biggest thing the team can do with regards to that. As I’ve argued before sucking against the run next year only impacts next year. Crap oline protection next year could have an impact on our qb situation that lasts for years.

[The Huddler]

56 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Normally I’m in favor of being more patient with rookies and I agree Little and Daily have shown some potential. The key word there is some. They have not shown otherworldly potential. Acquiring a starting LT in free agency is put simply not a viable option for the same reason acquiring a franchise Qb the same way is not. Healthy, effective starting LT’s do not hit FA in their prime but once in a blue moon.

The line must be fixed NOW, not whenever Hurney feels like getting around to it, which for a long time was never. Cam is going into his 30’s with significant injury history. I agree that Paradis needs to be replaced but LT is the most important pass pro position. Keep in mind that to be okay with sticking with Daily and Little for now is to be okay with exposing Cam to sub par blind side protection while we wait for them to HOPEFULLY develop beyond just potential. 

In this specific situation, I’m not okay with that. When your house is actively on fire is not the time to be cool with VFD rookies showing up and learning on the job. You need someone who can do the job effectively NOW. I think everyone who wants to see Cam play here beyond just next year should consider fixing LT our most important AND urgent need.

At present the most viable option for that appears to be Andrew Thomas.

A super talented rookie OT even with the best circumstances statistically aren't going to be that instant fix you want for next season 

[1of10Charnatives]

23 minutes ago, The Huddler said:

A super talented rookie OT even with the best circumstances statistically aren't going to be that instant fix you want for next season 

The question isn't whether the best rookie OT will be a pro bowler out of the gate, the question is are they likely to be an upgrade over what we can reasonably expect from Little/Daily. I think the answer to that is yes, therefore I'm in favor of drafting OT, because I feel the problem is both accute and urgent, and this is the best solution.

[catnip]

One of the problems last year was depth at the lines .  We had a serious drop off when a player went down .  Bring in talent and let them compete knowing there is talent behind them . Don't shuffle them around , let them know one position and get used to the players beside them .

[Khyber53]

5 hours ago, The Huddler said:

Its seems silly to me to give up on Greg Little (notably raw coming out of college, needing coaching) After one rookie season with a concussion issue and a coach fired mid season, that you traded up in the 2nd for. That seems incredibly short sighted to me. There were a ton of factors pitted against a raw rookie, and he still showed promise at a position that rookies tend to struggle even with the best circumstances. 

 

 

We gotta give this guy a better shot than that. Let Rhule and his army of coaches get a hold of him and coach him up. We actually have young potential at the OT position. 

 

Go draft a position where theres a huge need, AND theres no young potential. AKA Defensive Line, specifically DT.  

 

if we MUST upgrade left tackle RIGHT NOW, do it via free agency. Drafting another rookie OT that will require coaching to combat a learning curve is not the short term answer many of you want.   

There's a lot of wisdom here. I'd still be in favor of drafting a center early.

[1of10Charnatives]

3 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

There's a lot of wisdom here. I'd still be in favor of drafting a center early.

This is not going to be well received by some considering the state of our defense, but if we draft Thomas in the first, a solid center prospect in the 2nd, and dip into that super deep WR class in the third I’ll be thrilled.

Id be in favor of doing that this year, plug what holes you can in the D with FA, then next draft zero in on your D.