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How many GM's draft better than Hurney?

panther4life

By panther4life,
in Carolina Panthers

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Happy Panther Grand Master

Happy Panther

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Just now, 45catfan said:

I'll give him props for those 3 in bold.  Otah was promising for sure, but we will never know how he would have ended up due to injuries.  Moore and Burns, we will see...it's early.  The rest are still top half of the draft.  Sorry, I can't be convinced Marty is some sort of drafting guru.  I think...being completely honest, he's missed the big bust out of shear luck.  If he is that good at evaluating talent, the starkness between the best handful of players and the next couple of tiers shouldn't be like night and day.  I understand the probability of second or third rounders sticking is less likely, but the freaking cliff plunge in success is stark.  The drop off in success rate is predictable and to be expected, but not like he completely forgets how to draft after round one altogether.

Nobody is making the claim he is a guru. You said he gets so much praise for drafting Cam #1. That is not true. You also didn't seem to know that he made many picks in the later part of the draft and has not missed yet.

 

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panther4life Community Regular

panther4life

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13 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I'll give him props for those 3 in bold.  Otah was promising for sure, but we will never know how he would have ended up due to injuries.  Moore and Burns, we will see...it's early.  The rest are still top half of the draft.  Sorry, I can't be convinced Marty is some sort of drafting guru.  I think...being completely honest, he's missed the big bust out of shear luck.  If he is that good at evaluating talent, the starkness between the best handful of players and the next couple of tiers shouldn't be like night and day.  I understand the probability of second or third rounders sticking is less likely, but the freaking cliff plunge in success is stark.  The drop off in success rate is predictable and to be expected, but not like he completely forgets how to draft after round one altogether.

Can you find another GM who has has a 75% success rate in the first round? 

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NanuqoftheNorth Grand Master

NanuqoftheNorth

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On 2/27/2020 at 7:09 AM, Mr. Scot said:

You're going to need a better standard than just "hey, I liked this draft pick so therefore he must be a good GM".

For one, GMs who actually are good in the draft don't consistently find themselves back in the top half of the first round because the team they built the year before was sh-t.

I'm not buying that Hurney is that great at drafting, especially outside the first round, but even if I did, there is a lot more than drafting that goes into consistently fielding a playoff caliber team.  Bottom line:  Look no further than the number of winning seasons Hurney's produced in all his years as GM... 3.

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Pantherzack179812 Newbie

Pantherzack179812

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For all those bringing up GM stats of draft stats of success in rounds 2-7, show me their record of drafting HOFers and how many championships they have. 

Hurney teams have two Super Bowl Appearences, (Josh Norman, Luke, Cam, Stew, Olsen, Thomas Davis) all players drafted under Hurney, Gettleman hadn't done enough yet to take credit for that championship. The next year we went 6-10... Because we had no secondary. 

You  can argue Marty Hurney in 20 years has built 2 teams capable of winning a Super Bowl. Super Bowl 50 was lost off coaching and Super Bowl 38 was a heartbreaker, but that is possibly one of the best defenses in the history of pro football. If the team loses off coaching, how is it the GM's fault? 

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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2 hours ago, Happy Panther said:

No it doesn't count. We are discussing Hurney's first round picks. Brown was chosen 43rd.

If you want to make a list of bad draft trades by Hurney this counts. And as a bad 2nd round pick. You don't need to do mental gymnastics.

You are right. We are discussing 1st round picks. Hurney drafted Brown using our future 1st round pick in 2010. Theres no mental gymnastics. This is about as straightforward as you can get.

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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1 hour ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

For all those bringing up GM stats of draft stats of success in rounds 2-7, show me their record of drafting HOFers and how many championships they have. 

Hurney teams have two Super Bowl Appearences, (Josh Norman, Luke, Cam, Stew, Olsen, Thomas Davis) all players drafted under Hurney, Gettleman hadn't done enough yet to take credit for that championship. The next year we went 6-10... Because we had no secondary. 

You  can argue Marty Hurney in 20 years has built 2 teams capable of winning a Super Bowl. Super Bowl 50 was lost off coaching and Super Bowl 38 was a heartbreaker, but that is possibly one of the best defenses in the history of pro football. If the team loses off coaching, how is it the GM's fault? 

Hurney didnt build the SB50 team. He may have drafted some of the key players, but he didnt build the team. 

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Happy Panther Grand Master

Happy Panther

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27 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

You are right. We are discussing 1st round picks. Hurney drafted Brown using our future 1st round pick in 2010. Theres no mental gymnastics. This is about as straightforward as you can get.

Nobody defines Brown as a first round pick. Just stop.

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NanuqoftheNorth Grand Master

NanuqoftheNorth

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29 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Hurney didnt build the SB50 team. He may have drafted some of the key players, but he didnt build the team. 

And there is the rub, Hurney has demonstrated a lack of ability when it comes to constructing a winning roster.  Last time he accomplished that was 2008.  A GM that drafts well in the first round but seldom assembles a cohesive roster with depth can't get the job done more often than not.

Exhibit A: Only 3 winning seasons 

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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How is how he uses draft picks not relevant to his ability to draft? I would say its extremely relevant in showing his evaluation of players and how he values them. Brown was taken with the 43rd pick but Hurney put a 1st round valuation on him.

Drafting is about a lot more than which players you pick.

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