Rewind a few months...

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Incorrect. We are projected to have roughly $23.5-27 mil in cap space due to some of the same boneheaded moves as throwing money at a mid-level LB(due $14.1 mil in 2021). That's called repeating the mistakes of the past, which I guess if you have Hurney Stockholm Syndrome, you'd call "gloom and doom and bitching."

That assumes a cap hit of 1750000. We will have another 5 mil in change in rollover for a total right at 30 million.  And that is roughly the same as this year's active roster of 148 million which next year is projected at 153 million. Seems we will be gone even with a Covid 19 pull back.

 

 

[DamnItJake!]

Coaches are evaluating the mess they were left with!! Trying to to turn a crap sandwich into bologna sandwich!! And I like it but prefer Rueben!! It’s the pain we need but like the coaching to adjust 

[Jon Snow]

10 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Not even Hurney is stupid enough to pay Samuel $10M. Samuel will be looking for a prove it deal from someone.

You underestimate the level of stupidity in the one and only Marty Hurney.

[kungfoodude]

8 hours ago, panthers55 said:

That assumes a cap hit of 1750000. We will have another 5 mil in change in rollover for a total right at 30 million.  And that is roughly the same as this year's active roster of 148 million which next year is projected at 153 million. Seems we will be gone even with a Covid 19 pull back.

If the cap retracts as much as some of the estimates suggest, we will probably end up with roughly $15-20 mil in cap space including the roll over money. We also can essentially cut everyone on the roster except those on rookie contracts(and CMC) and save money. Even Shaq can be cut next year to net a $4.5 mil cap gain.

It was a stupid decision but at least it can be remedied quickly but just jettisoning some of these bad decisions. 

[panthers55]

38 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

If the cap retracts as much as some of the estimates suggest, we will probably end up with roughly $15-20 mil in cap space including the roll over money. We also can essentially cut everyone on the roster except those on rookie contracts(and CMC) and save money. Even Shaq can be cut next year to net a $4.5 mil cap gain.

It was a stupid decision but at least it can be remedied quickly but just jettisoning some of these bad decisions. 

It is easily remedied then it wasn't a bad decision. It was a calculated risk that we still don't know if it was a good idea or not given we are only 2 games into the season. All of these premature declarations of how terrible Shaq's contract is quite ridiculous. Speaks to a previous agenda.

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

It is easily remedied then it wasn't a bad decision. It was a calculated risk that we still don't know if it was a good idea or not given we are only 2 games into the season. All of these premature declarations of how terrible Shaq's contract is quite ridiculous. Speaks to a previous agenda.

His isn't so easily remedied. We will be saddled with a substantial amount of dead cap in a year where we already will have at least $9.1 mil in dead cap on the books. It's doubly worse when that salary amount from this year could have been rolled over to next year's available cap space.

A gamble is a one year "prove it" deal, not a 4 year extension that makes him the 14th highest paid LB in the NFL. Is Shaq the 14th best LB in the NFL? Well he's getting paid like it. And that list includes players like Khalil Mack, Von Miller, Bobby Wagner, etc. 

It was an objectively terrible contract.

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

His isn't so easily remedied. We will be saddled with a substantial amount of dead cap in a year where we already will have at least $9.1 mil in dead cap on the books. It's doubly worse when that salary amount from this year could have been rolled over to next year's available cap space.

A gamble is a one year "prove it" deal, not a 4 year extension that makes him the 14th highest paid LB in the NFL. Is Shaq the 14th best LB in the NFL? Well he's getting paid like it. And that list includes players like Khalil Mack, Von Miller, Bobby Wagner, etc. 

It was an objectively terrible contract.

So first of all we have him on a deal with only 7 million cap hit this year. So all the angst about overpaying him should be booted to next year when he will make 14 million next year not this. So again the angst is premature. If we cut him in 2021 we will save 5 million in cap space or have 9 million in dead cap which can be spread at over 2 years. And that is worse case scenario which isn't that bad. I think he will do a decent job this year and with upgrades at linebacker I think he will have a good year and justify his salary in 2021. But based on the 7 million this year is he is one of the top 30 linebackers in the league? Absolutely.

His average salary is listed at 14th but that doesn't account for the fact that not all of that is guaranteed and he may not see it all. So again his cap hit this year is very low and his dead cap money isn't large enough to not dump him if he sucked. So no it wasn't terrible and your hyperbole is way over the top.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

So first of all we have him on a deal with only 7 million cap hit this year. So all the angst about overpaying him should be booted to next year when he will make 14 million next year not this. So again the angst is premature. If we cut him in 2021 we will save 5 million in cap space or have 9 million in dead cap which can be spread at over 2 years. And that is worse case scenario which isn't that bad. I think he will do a decent job this year and with upgrades at linebacker I think he will have a good year and justify his salary in 2021. But based on the 7 million this year is he is one of the top 30 linebackers in the league? Absolutely.

His average salary is listed at 14th but that doesn't account for the fact that not all of that is guaranteed and he may not see it all. So again his cap hit this year is very low and his dead cap money isn't large enough to not dump him if he sucked. So no it wasn't terrible and your hyperbole is way over the top.

How much more could you possibly justify a bad contract? You know what would have been a better move financially? Not re-signing him. And, no, he is not one of the top 30 LB's in the league. That is completely ridiculous.

The core of this argument is basically that. You overvalue him substantially, whereas the bulk of the people bitching about that contract don't. 

We can table this until after the season so we can see how this ends up but I promise you that you will not see a "Top 30 LB" performance this year. I'll make a substantial wager that we won't see one next year either. 

[LinvilleGorge]

On 9/21/2020 at 3:34 PM, electro's horse said:

i imagine as the season goes on/falls apart he'll take more of a back ground role or get "injured" like everyone did in 2010. 

i just don't care about bad contracts in years they're not going to be competitive. the salary cap is a myth and it's not like tepper is hurting for cash. 

He's probably the 2nd or 3rd highest paid 4-3 OLB. The majority of the LBs ranked above him are 3-4 pass rushing OLBs.

I take solace in the fact the deal is structured that we can pretty easily walk away after two years. Hurney no doubt wrote that contract with the plan to restructure it, but hopefully we'll have a new GM who is smart enough to cut bait on players he should cut bait on instead of kicking the can down the road.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He's probably the 2nd or 3rd highest paid 4-3 OLB. The majority of the LBs ranked above him are 3-4 pass rushing OLBs.

I take solace in the fact the deal is structured that we can pretty easily walk away after two years. Hurney no doubt wrote that contract with the plan to restructure it, but hopefully we'll have a new GM who is smart enough to cut bait on players he should cut bait on instead of kicking the can down the road.

He's actually 14th among 3-4 OLB's, MLB's and 4-3 OLB's. 

Here is the list:

Khalil Mack	Bears	29	$141,000,000	$23,500,000	$90,000,000	$60,000,000	2025 UFA
Von Miller	Broncos	31	$114,500,000	$19,083,333	$70,000,000	$42,000,000	2022 UFA
Bobby Wagner	Seahawks	30	$54,000,000	$18,000,000	$40,250,000	$24,500,000	2023 UFA
C.J. Mosley	Jets	28	$85,000,000	$17,000,000	$51,000,000	$43,000,000	2025 UFA
Matt Judon	Ravens	28	$16,808,000	$16,808,000	$16,808,000	$16,808,000	2021 UFA
Za'Darius Smith	Packers	27	$66,000,000	$16,500,000	$20,000,000	$20,000,000	2023 UFA
Chandler Jones	Cardinals	30	$82,500,000	$16,500,000	$53,000,000	$31,000,000	2022 UFA
Shaquil Barrett	Buccaneers	28	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	2021 UFA
Bud Dupree	Steelers	27	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	2021 UFA
Zach Cunningham	Texans	26	$58,000,000	$14,500,000	$33,574,783	$23,574,783	2025 UFA
Myles Jack	Jaguars	25	$57,000,000	$14,250,000	$33,063,787	$26,063,787	2024 UFA
Deion Jones	Falcons	26	$57,000,000	$14,250,000	$34,000,000	$18,800,000	2024 UFA
Robert Quinn	Bears	30	$70,000,000	$14,000,000	$30,000,000	$30,000,000	2025 UFA
Shaq Thompson	Panthers	26	$54,160,000	$13,540,000	$27,980,000	$16,000,000	2024 UFA

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

He's actually 14th among 3-4 OLB's, MLB's and 4-3 OLB's. 

Here is the list:

Khalil Mack	Bears	29	$141,000,000	$23,500,000	$90,000,000	$60,000,000	2025 UFA
Von Miller	Broncos	31	$114,500,000	$19,083,333	$70,000,000	$42,000,000	2022 UFA
Bobby Wagner	Seahawks	30	$54,000,000	$18,000,000	$40,250,000	$24,500,000	2023 UFA
C.J. Mosley	Jets	28	$85,000,000	$17,000,000	$51,000,000	$43,000,000	2025 UFA
Matt Judon	Ravens	28	$16,808,000	$16,808,000	$16,808,000	$16,808,000	2021 UFA
Za'Darius Smith	Packers	27	$66,000,000	$16,500,000	$20,000,000	$20,000,000	2023 UFA
Chandler Jones	Cardinals	30	$82,500,000	$16,500,000	$53,000,000	$31,000,000	2022 UFA
Shaquil Barrett	Buccaneers	28	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	2021 UFA
Bud Dupree	Steelers	27	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	$15,828,000	2021 UFA
Zach Cunningham	Texans	26	$58,000,000	$14,500,000	$33,574,783	$23,574,783	2025 UFA
Myles Jack	Jaguars	25	$57,000,000	$14,250,000	$33,063,787	$26,063,787	2024 UFA
Deion Jones	Falcons	26	$57,000,000	$14,250,000	$34,000,000	$18,800,000	2024 UFA
Robert Quinn	Bears	30	$70,000,000	$14,000,000	$30,000,000	$30,000,000	2025 UFA
Shaq Thompson	Panthers	26	$54,160,000	$13,540,000	$27,980,000	$16,000,000	2024 UFA

That was my point. Most of those guys are 3-4 pass rushers which skews the list because 3-4 OLBs are more comparable to 4-3 DEs than they are to 4-3 OLBs.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That was my point. Most of those guys are 3-4 pass rushers which skews the list because 3-4 OLBs are more comparable to 4-3 DEs than they are to 4-3 OLBs.

It was such a terrible contract and decision. It keeps looking worse by the day, for that matter. 

Hurney 2.0 is just the same software in a different box. 

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

It was such a terrible contract and decision. It keeps looking worse by the day, for that matter. 

Hurney 2.0 is just the same software in a different box. 

Not even the box changed. It's the exact same product. We're rocking a T-Mobile Sidekick with a cracked screen while everyone else has the latest and greatest iPhone, Galaxy, Pixel, etc.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

hurney giving out stupid contracts

 

yeah, who could have seen that coming amirite

something something hindsight 20/20