Verge's Draft General thread 2021

[MHS831]

9 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Chris Weinke did basically the same thing. Highest stage. Heisman. 

 

Mac Jones = Chris Weinke. 

100% dead phuckin serious. 

 When you want to start talking real statistics and measures of QB excellence, I would be willing to talk." Blue = purple because I said so! Take that!"  WTF? But you are immature and think you know all.  Here is a tip:  Nobody knows--not you, not me.  So stop your macho BS because it is confirming your ineptitude and nothing more.

Weinke?  Are you serious?  What a cherry-picked, pointless statement.  Please don't respond.  I am not going to respond your pointless chest pounding.  Sheeez.

Edited March 14, 2021 by MHS831

[Catsfan69]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

Did what?  Threw for 77.4% completion rate?  350 yards per game?  Won a national championship?  A: No, No, No.

Has Matt ever played on a big stage for a ring?  Oh, that is right.  Once.  How did that turn out?  (Hint: 28-3--choking sounds)

Do they give trophies for arms? 

Oh, I guess they do.

The only way I could stomach Mac Jones for the Panthers is if they took him in the 4th round.

Maybe 3rd if I am in the Christmas spirit. 

 

Guys that like Mac Jones are the guys that date and marry fat chicks.

They are safe and low maintenance and boring.

I'd rather marry an 8 plus.

Yeah she might turn out psycho and stab you or something but the highs will be worth the possible hospital bill.

 

Lance and Fields are much better upside pics.

[MHS831]

3 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

The only way I could stomach Mac Jones for the Panthers is if they took him in the 4th round.

Maybe 3rd if I am in the Christmas spirit. 

 

Guys that like Mac Jones are the guys that date and marry fat chicks.

They are safe and low maintenance and boring.

I'd rather marry an 8 plus.

Yeah she might turn out psycho and stab you or something but the highs will be worth the possible hospital bill.

 

Lance and Fields are much better upside pics.

There is so much data here, I do not know were to begin my apology after succumbing to the insurmountable surge of logic that has just overwhelmed me.

Even your username suggests insecure early adolescent.

Edited March 14, 2021 by MHS831

[Catsfan69]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

It must be a burden carrying around your wealth of knowledge.  When you want to start talking real statistics and measures of QB excellence, I would be willing to talk.  But you are immature and think you know all.  Here is a tip:  Nobody knows--not you, not me.  So stop your macho BS because it is confirming your ineptitude and nothing more.

Weinke?  Are you serious?  What a cherry-picked, pointless statement.  Please don't respond.  I am not going to respond your pointless chest pounding.  Sheeez.

I'm sorry if you like what you see on tape fine. I don't like what I see.

Verge said she sees bad tape as well.

I don't care about the stats. I have eyes. 

Tell me why you would want him. Forget stats tell me what you see with your eyes.

[Catsfan69]

5 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

There is so much data here, I do not know were to begin my apology after succumbing to the insurmountable surge of logic that has just overwhelmed me.

Even your username suggests insecure early adolescent.

Why does my screename scream adolescent?

I'm a Panthers fan =Cats

I was born in 1969

Catsfan was taken I had to add numbers.

[kungfoodude]

15 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Did what?  Threw for 77.4% completion rate?  350 yards per game?  Won a national championship?  A: No, No, No.

Has Matt ever played on a big stage for a ring?  Oh, that is right.  Once.  How did that turn out?  (Hint: 28-3--choking sounds)

Do they give trophies for arms? 

Oh, I guess they do.

Matt Ryan is and was way more talented than Jones as a prospect. 

[Verge]

1 hour ago, Basbear said:

@Verge is you source still employed? 

Indeed.

[Basbear]

2 minutes ago, Verge said:

Indeed.

So is he with the same team or different? Im I miss remembering you making a long post about him getting out of the scout business and moving on with life? 

[Verge]

What's funny to me about Mac Jones is that last year people ripped Justin Herbert apart for having so many plays that were just dinks dunks and screens, where as that is about 80% of Mac Jones' game. The difference being that Mac Jones has none of the immense physical talent that Hebert had, and I have yet to see a game where Mac Jones put the game on his shoulders and carried the team, he never had to do it point blank period. 

He is very frustrating to watch on film due to how wide open his receivers constantly are, how much protection he gets, how the talent around him consistently gets chunk plays off of his constant screens and dump offs. Every now and then you see a NFL throw from him, his deep ball placement is quite good at times, but it is so sketchy and hard to find. There is not the physical tools needed to be able to guide a NFL team to success, there just isn't.  

At the end of the day he can process what is in front of him and dump it to playmakers, if that is what you want in a QB that is totally fine, and it can work in the NFL, but are you really going to invest a 1st round pick in something that you can get from a Andry Dalton, Nick Foles, etc etc etc? Seems highly unlikely to me. You are taking just as much risk in Mac Jones as you are in a Trey Lance with none of the upside, sure you get some stability in basic football intelligence and ball placement, but that doesn't really win by itself anymore. 

So is Mac Jones a top 50 player? Not really, no. Is he someone you can draft and put on a team with lots of talent and have him spread it to those playmakers? Yep, but it is not sustainable in the slightest and takes about two games of tape to figure you out. 

[Verge]

5 minutes ago, Basbear said:

So is he with the same team or different? Im I miss remembering you making a long post about him getting out of the scout business and moving on with life? 

He had finished up his degree and was considering moving out of the business yes, but opted to stay when he got a promotion with in the organization. I try not to give up too much information about him in this day and age of technology. 

[Basbear]

Just now, Verge said:

He had finished up his degree and was considering moving out of the business yes, but opted to stay when he got a promotion with in the organization. I try not to give up too much information about him in this day and age of technology. 

I understand. My memory is not reliable and didnt know whats what.  

[Verge]

3 minutes ago, Verge said:

What's funny to me about Mac Jones is that last year people ripped Justin Herbert apart for having so many plays that were just dinks dunks and screens, where as that is about 80% of Mac Jones' game. The difference being that Mac Jones has none of the immense physical talent that Hebert had, and I have yet to see a game where Mac Jones put the game on his shoulders and carried the team, he never had to do it point blank period. 

He is very frustrating to watch on film due to how wide open his receivers constantly are, how much protection he gets, how the talent around him consistently gets chunk plays off of his constant screens and dump offs. Every now and then you see a NFL throw from him, his deep ball placement is quite good at times, but it is so sketchy and hard to find. There is not the physical tools needed to be able to guide a NFL team to success, there just isn't.  

At the end of the day he can process what is in front of him and dump it to playmakers, if that is what you want in a QB that is totally fine, and it can work in the NFL, but are you really going to invest a 1st round pick in something that you can get from a Andry Dalton, Nick Foles, etc etc etc? Seems highly unlikely to me. You are taking just as much risk in Mac Jones as you are in a Trey Lance with none of the upside, sure you get some stability in basic football intelligence and ball placement, but that doesn't really win by itself anymore. 

So is Mac Jones a top 50 player? Not really, no. Is he someone you can draft and put on a team with lots of talent and have him spread it to those playmakers? Yep, but it is not sustainable in the slightest and takes about two games of tape to figure you out. 

This is even without mentioning that teams had to constantly respect the run game, and he was always in a position to know where he was going to go with the ball 90% of the time. This will never happen at the next level, and you are creating unrealistic expectations for a guy who has literally never been asked to do any of it.

[davos]

5 minutes ago, Verge said:

This is even without mentioning that teams had to constantly respect the run game, and he was always in a position to know where he was going to go with the ball 90% of the time. This will never happen at the next level, and you are creating unrealistic expectations for a guy who has literally never been asked to do any of it.

That post you quoted is what gets me.  I'm open to seeing the pros of Mac but he was never needed to carry the team; didn't have many "okay we need a TD here" type drives.  It was a machine he was placed into and he's the exact same size as AJ McCarron.  6'3 215.  And I don't see what more he really brings than AJ did when watching that tape.  AJ was tossing it behind a great OL to Julio and look at his stats his last 2 college seasons. ~30 tds, single digit ints.

And even when there's an exciting guy like Tua in that offense, you see what happens when they're brought outside. He was way more conservative of a QB than I thought he was and it's not like Miami has a bad offensive line.

His risk is just as high as the raw, athletic guys and I'd much rather take the raw, athletic type.  There are three huge traits that are hard to spot with college QBs: coachability, leadership & clutch gene.  Those make or break these guys and it's really hard to spot in our positions.  GMs/scouts/cpaches get a glimpse in interviews but that's the tricky thing to smell out of the position.

[Basbear]

2 hours ago, Catsfan69 said:

I'm sorry if you like what you see on tape fine. I don't like what I see.

Verge said she sees bad tape as well.

I don't care about the stats. I have eyes. 

Tell me why you would want him. Forget stats tell me what you see with your eyes.

Where did you rate Tua for the 2020 draft? Try not to factor in this past season at all, you pre-draft feels/rating.