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Panthers minicamp observations and such


Zod
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1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

The question about Darnold has always been his mental abilities.

Which, he probably should have never been drafted where he was considering his overall derth of actual experience playing QB at any level.

Those reps matter a LOT for developing a player. Right now the bulk of the reps in his entire quarterback career were with the Jets. 

Compare that to someone like Trevor Lawrence, who basically grew up playing football and quarterback. That is tens of thousands of reps and hours that he is already ahead of a guy like Darnold in his development. 

Doesn't mean he can't bridge that gap but everyone seemed to have looked past how little experience he actually had coming into the NFL. 

 

This, spot on.

He did not have a private QB coach like the majority of QBs in SoCal, he played three sports (very well, D1 level interest) growing up, giving up only baseball in HS because the coach gave him an ultimatum of baseball only.  No camps till his senior year, when he had to, the reason his offer list was dominated by academic elites.

Terrible coaching in college, particularly his final year, changing to a new offensive system they called the “gumbo offense”, which attempted to fit a square peg in a round hole.  He saved that staffs’ jobs in 2016.  After he left, the offense was so horrific under that system, the entire offensive staff was fired.

The last thing a QB who was a work in progress, was being drafted by a team like the Jets.  He has to learn that he can’t make chicken salad out of chicken poo poo. , throw the ball away.  Carson Palmer was horrible, INT machine under Hackett...then Pete and a competent QB/OC coach, Norm Chow, changed everything.  Carson has said that Sams’ gunslinger mentality reminds him of himself.  
 

He is tough, he was offered by CH when he threw for 5 TDs in one half, while the OC from his dream school was standing on the sidelines evaluating him.

Edited by 1usctrojan
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59 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Teddy's arm was significantly better than I anticipated. Honestly, of Teddy had the guts he could be a Cousins/Goff level QB. He has about that level of arm. He just doesn't have the guts to make the throws.

It wasn't because he couldn't throw deep, it was because he had to loft the ball to get it there...giving dbs time to cover.  Teddy could not throw darts.  He knew this, which is why he didn't go deep often.   We can lie to ourselves all we want, but in the end, Teddy did not have a strong arm.

 

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 I question Darnold between the ears.

Teddy wasn't a genius either .  Checking down when you need 15 yards, isn't smart.  Checking down  with short time and you have the field to cover, isn't smart.  Fumbling at the goal line isn't smart.  Throwing interceptions in the redzone and endzone, isn't smart.  Not protecting the ball when scrambling, isn't smart.   Blaming everyone else around you, isn't smart...even after you've left.

Teddy had more time, more often with better receivers, better scheme, better coaching and  better production from his teammates....

and still made all those mental mistakes.

Teddy may prove everyone wrong, but we wondered if that was Teddy's ceiling.

  

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

His physical tools are fairly run of the mill for a starting QB. Not a minus, but there aren't any real special traits either. That's an upgrade from Teddy's below average traits,

Hey we're in agreement.

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but a lot of Panthers fans have seemingly convinced themselves that Darnold is a Rodgers type talent that has been squandered in NY

Darnold is not and will not be anywhere near a Rodgers type talent.

Whatever talent he has was squandered in NY.

I assume you're intentionally  exaggerating  what people are claiming to try to make your point look better.

I thought we were discussing the comparison of Teddy's and Darnold's RAS scores and whether they matter a hill of beans when neither are a dual threat QB, like Cam.   

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1 hour ago, SBBlue said:

It wasn't because he couldn't throw deep, it was because he had to loft the ball to get it there...giving dbs time to cover.  Teddy could not throw darts.  He knew this, which is why he didn't go deep often.   We can lie to ourselves all we want, but in the end, Teddy did not have a strong arm.

 

Teddy wasn't a genius either .  Checking down when you need 15 yards, isn't smart.  Checking down  with short time and you have the field to cover, isn't smart.  Fumbling at the goal line isn't smart.  Throwing interceptions in the redzone and endzone, isn't smart.  Not protecting the ball when scrambling, isn't smart.   Blaming everyone else around you, isn't smart...even after you've left.

Teddy had more time, more often with better receivers, better scheme, better coaching and  better production from his teammates....

and still made all those mental mistakes.

Teddy may prove everyone wrong, but we wondered if that was Teddy's ceiling.

  

 

 

 

Teddy actually surprised me with his ability to throw darts on the rare occasion he'd actually let it rip. He just very rarely actually did that.

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1 hour ago, SBBlue said:

Hey we're in agreement.

Darnold is not and will not be anywhere near a Rodgers type talent.

Whatever talent he has was squandered in NY.

I assume you're intentionally  exaggerating  what people are claiming to try to make your point look better.

I thought we were discussing the comparison of Teddy's and Darnold's RAS scores and whether they matter a hill of beans when neither are a dual threat QB, like Cam.   

I think you have to either oversell his talent or undersell the concerns between the ears to be seriously excited about his prospects.

I hope he proves me wrong, but I think the most likely outcome is that this forum is dominated by 2022 QB prospect discussion before the first frost at BOA.

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4 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

 

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We know, man. They're know more about football than us. Every move they make is well founded. Everyone who disagrees with that is a moron.

Meanwhile, somehow the Panthers have an overall losing record. That losing record has this far gotten worse under Tepper. Marty Hurney without a doubt knew WAY more than any of us about GMing an NFL football team, how the draft prospect evaluation process goes, how negotiating contracts goes, etc. That absolutely didn't get in his way of failing to intelligently implement any of that knowledge.

My point is that if all you want to do is parrot that line and not actually take place in any discussion differing from that line, what is your point in being here? Serious question.

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2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

His physical tools are fairly run of the mill for a starting QB. Not a minus, but there aren't any real special traits either. That's an upgrade from Teddy's below average traits, but a lot of Panthers fans have seemingly convinced themselves that Darnold is a Rodgers type talent that has been squandered in NY. I just don't think that's at all accurate.

He doesn’t have Rodgers arm obviously, but he throws very well off the run with great velocity. I mean him getting picked number 3 overall wasn’t considered a reach at the time. His physical ability is pretty high for the position, he was just pretty raw having just started playing it his junior year. I always saw him as a Josh Allen high potential kind of player. Allen has better speed and size, but Darnold’s athletic ability is pretty high. I believe he played linebacker in High School. I’ve seen some crazy plays where he avoids sacks and makes some impressive throws off the run than not many QBs can make. One is his main weaknesses is trusting this arm too much and making dumb throws instead of throwing it away or taking a sack.

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3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Those reps matter a LOT for developing a player. Right now the bulk of the reps in his entire quarterback career were with the Jets. 

Compare that to someone like Trevor Lawrence, who basically grew up playing football and quarterback. That is tens of thousands of reps and hours that he is already ahead of a guy like Darnold in his development. 

Doesn't mean he can't bridge that gap but everyone seemed to have looked past how little experience he actually had coming into the NFL. 

 

True but I think that NFL game reps count a little more than college level reps.  At best, it's an apples to oranges comparison.  I do share your concern about those NFL reps being with the Jets.  We'll see pretty quickly this season whether the Jets broke Sam for all time or whether Sean Ryan is truly the 'Quarterback Whisperer'.  Other Huddlers make valid comments about the O-line being a factor in Sam's success or failure.  I tend to think that Sean Ryan will potentially be the biggest factor in getting Sam's head 'right' and set up for success. 

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1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

He doesn’t have Rodgers arm obviously, but he throws very well off the run with great velocity. I mean him getting picked number 3 overall wasn’t considered a reach at the time. His physical ability is pretty high for the position, he was just pretty raw having just started playing it his junior year. I always saw him as a Josh Allen high potential kind of player. Allen has better speed and size, but Darnold’s athletic ability is pretty high. I believe he played linebacker in High School. I’ve seen some crazy plays where he avoids sacks and makes some impressive throws off the run than not many QBs can make. One is his main weaknesses is trusting this arm too much and making dumb throws instead of throwing it away or taking a sack.

I can't see the Allen comparison. Allen is significantly more athletic and has a significantly better arm. Allen's big knock coming out of college was accuracy and he's greatly improved in that department. Dude has a cannon.

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1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I can't see the Allen comparison. Allen is significantly more athletic and has a significantly better arm. Allen's big knock coming out of college was accuracy and he's greatly improved in that department. Dude has a cannon.

Definitely has a better arm. I mean the relatively raw athletic QB. I think Darnold throws great off the run, which usually means they have a solid arm. Allen is on another level. I guess when I think of “average” athletic ability I think of Cousins, Ryan, and Mayfield. I’d put Darnold’s arm, scrambling, and ability to throw off the run higher than these guys.  

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34 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Definitely has a better arm. I mean the relatively raw athletic QB. I think Darnold throws great off the run, which usually means they have a solid arm. Allen is on another level. I guess when I think of “average” athletic ability I think of Cousins, Ryan, and Mayfield. I’d put Darnold’s arm, scrambling, and ability to throw off the run higher than these guys.  

I think Ryan is about average. I'd put Cousins below and Baker above.

I mean, Mayfield did throw the longest pass ever thrown in an NFL game this past season. Your "average" guy isn't doing that.

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