Tepper's Next HC: Get a Search Committee

[AU-panther]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Ed Bouchette and numerous other sources at the time confirmed Colbert ran the search. 

Mind you, that's not to say the Rooneys had no part of the process (and I haven't said they didn't). What I've pointed out was they had their own guy running it, and he was trusted to do so, rather than going with an outside consultant.

Now granted, Colbert had been a long tenured and successful GM at the time of their coaching search. Fitterer has only been GM for a year.

running the search and having final say is two different things. 

Like most coaching decisions, odds are Rooney ultimately decided, which is how most coaching searches go and anyone who thinks Tepper won't have the final say in the next coaching search is delusional.

About the most you can ask for is for Tepper to put people in place to help him make the correct decision, and even if that happens there is no guarantee that it will be a successful pick.

 

[Mr. Scot]

48 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

running the search and having final say is two different things. 

Like most coaching decisions, odds are Rooney ultimately decided, which is how most coaching searches go and anyone who thinks Tepper won't have the final say in the next coaching search is delusional.

About the most you can ask for is for Tepper to put people in place to help him make the correct decision, and even if that happens there is no guarantee that it will be a successful pick.

Which is where the self-awareness comes in...

Dan Snyder will continue to make football decisions for Washington. He'll also continue to deny that it's his fault they suck.

Likewise, David Tepper can continue to make decisions for the Panthers if he wants to, but if he's smart he'll let someone who knows what they're doing decide for him because he hasn't got a clue what he's doing.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[AU-panther]

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Should probably mention we're getting away from the point here...

The heart of the topic is competence and self-awareness. From what we've seen so far, David Tepper doesn't have the first. Whether he has the second remains to be seen.

Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder are examples of owners who make terrible football decisions but lack the self awareness to understand that.

Jeffrey Lurie and Cal McNair are examples of guy who trust the wrong people, but don't see it that way.

David Tepper? He definitely fell into the second category with both Marty Hurney and Matt Rhule. He could also still be classified as type one as well. Again, remains to be seen.

What we're hoping for is that 1) he gives the next coaching search over to someone else and 2) it's someone smart enough to do it right.

I'm honestly not optimistic, but here's hoping...

Since Jerry Jones has become owner of the Cowboys, how many teams have a higher winning percentage?  How many have more Super Bowls?

Not sure if he really proves the point you are trying to make.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that I hope Tepper, if he makes a change, decides to put qualified people in position to help conduct a search, but anyone thinking Tepper or any owner won't be heavily invested in the final decision is delusional.

Also all of this talk about people who are "smart enough" is often said with hindsight.  If we hire a "qualified" person and he picks a coach who doesn't work out, do we still get to say he is smart enough?

Nobody wants to admit this but there is a little bit of luck involved, if there was a fool proof way to pick a head coach every team would have a good one.

NFL coordinators can be good at NFL level Xs and Os, but sometimes struggle with running the team as a whole.

College coaches can sometimes be good with the CEO aspect but struggle with the NFL level Xs and Os.

EX NFL head coaches are usually EX because they were bad.

How often do proven NFL level coaches really become available?

Rhule felt like a boom or bust type of hire.  You are hoping for that Jimmy Johnson type of hire.  Right now, it's not looking like that.

My guess is if we do decide to look for another head coach we'll take the opposite approach. Usually when a decision doesn't work people tend to try the opposite later.  I could definitely see us going with a NFL level coach.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Since Jerry Jones has become owner of the Cowboys, how many teams have a higher winning percentage?  How many have more Super Bowls?

Not sure if he really proves the point you are trying to make.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that I hope Tepper, if he makes a change, decides to put qualified people in position to help conduct a search, but anyone thinking Tepper or any owner won't be heavily invested in the final decision is delusional.

Also all of this talk about people who are "smart enough" is often said with hindsight.  If we hire a "qualified" person and he picks a coach who doesn't work out, do we still get to say he is smart enough?

Nobody wants to admit this but there is a little bit of luck involved, if there was a fool proof way to pick a head coach every team would have a good one.

NFL coordinators can be good at NFL level Xs and Os, but sometimes struggle with running the team as a whole.

College coaches can sometimes be good with the CEO aspect but struggle with the NFL level Xs and Os.

EX NFL head coaches are usually EX because they were bad.

How often do proven NFL level coaches really become available?

Rhule felt like a boom or bust type of hire.  You are hoping for that Jimmy Johnson type of hire.  Right now, it's not looking like that.

My guess is if we do decide to look for another head coach we'll take the opposite approach. Usually when a decision doesn't work people tend to try the opposite later.  I could definitely see us going with a NFL level coach.

You should probably make note of the difference between Jerry Jones with Jimmy Johnson and no salary cap versus Jerry Jones without Jimmy Johnson and a salary cap in place.

There's a massive difference.

[AU-panther]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You should probably make note of the difference between Jerry Jones with Jimmy Johnson and no salary cap versus Jerry Jones without Jimmy Johnson and a salary cap in place.

There's a massive difference.

are you sure?

Ranking all 32 NFL teams by record from 2000-2020 | List Wire (usatoday.com)

Last 20 years Cowboys are 11th in winning percentage.  

Thats above average and includes all of the salary cap years.

Even during the no salary cap years, the other teams didn't have the salary cap either.  I'm sure he wasn't the only one with deep pockets.

 

[ncdrifter]

The last search committee we had was for DAVE GETTLEMAN !  How did that go for us?

[Mr. Scot]

36 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

are you sure?

Ranking all 32 NFL teams by record from 2000-2020 | List Wire (usatoday.com)

Last 20 years Cowboys are 11th in winning percentage.  

Thats above average and includes all of the salary cap years.

Even during the no salary cap years, the other teams didn't have the salary cap either.  I'm sure he wasn't the only one with deep pockets.

Ten games over 500?

I'm impressed

[AU-panther]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Ten games over 500?

I'm impressed

Good and bad are relative terms.  Seems to be a difficult concept for people around here.

 

[SizzleBuzz]

6 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

The heart of the topic is competence and self-awareness.

From what we've seen so far, David Tepper doesn't have the first.

Whether he has the second remains to be seen.

So says the 452,671 posts peering in on Al Gore's internets guy about  the guy who started out with $0 and has banked a $gazillion$ and now owns an NFL team free-and-clear...

...

 

[SizzleBuzz]

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Likewise, David Tepper can continue to make decisions for the Panthers if he wants to...

Woah, woah WHOA!!!

You have CONSISTENTLY maintained that Mr. Tepper leaves all the decisions to the "football people"...

...come on man!!

[Jared Patterson]

Anyone hearing anything? Giants are "likely" retaining Judge. 

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, Jared Patterson said:

Anyone hearing anything? Giants are "likely" retaining Judge. 

Latest "hot seat" article from The Sporting News (link) breaks it down thusly...

Warming Up...

Joe Judge, Giants
Pete Carroll, Seahawks
Urban Meyer, Jaguars

Gettin'Hotter...

Vic Fangio, Broncos
Matt Rhule, Panthers

On Fire...

Mike Zimmer, Vikings
Matt Nagy, Bears

[Mr. Scot]

For the curious, here's TSN's writeup on Rhule...

Rhule signed a seven-year deal prior to the start of the 2020 season, seemingly giving him ample time to turn Carolina's fortunes around. However, his relationship (and subsequent firing) of Joe Brady and the Panthers' middling results since the start of the season may make that contract meaningless.

Carolina's QB carousel has doomed the Panthers just as much as the coaching has, but Rhule has been generally uninspiring since taking the the job last year, coming from the college ranks. His firing of Brady could either be viewed simply as a philosophical difference in how the offense should have been run or a scapegoat to hide from Rhule's lack of grasp on a 2021 NFL offense. 

Heralded as a program builder, Rhule hasn't built much of anything yet in Carolina, despite having a very talented defense and some pieces to work with on the offensive side of the ball. While his gaudy contract says he'll probably get at least another year to figure things out, money is no object to Carolina owner David Tepper, who could choose to go for another, bigger higher this upcoming offseason to get these win-now Panthers, well, winning now.

[Wes21]

13 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

You should probably make note of the difference between Jerry Jones with Jimmy Johnson and no salary cap versus Jerry Jones without Jimmy Johnson and a salary cap in place.

There's a massive difference.

If you listen to people who are close to the organization, there are actually 3 different phases of Jerry's ownership of the Cowboys.  You can split up Jerry's ownership in the 2 parts that you just mentioned.  But they said that Jerry has quietly given power to others in the organization to make football decisions for the last 8-10 years.  Jerry is still front and center when it comes to the microphone.  But he's more of a figurehead at this point, while other people are making the actual decisions.

The change in approach has corresponded with the sudden uptick in wins and competitiveness over that time.