How dangerous is Willis as a runner? What makes him special?

[micnificent28]

5 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

AND?

I've never heard of him.  Just because he has player analyst by his name doesn't mean much. 

Obviously not much of a source. 

I mean if you no a hard-core draft nut you might think so. But I love this aspect of the NFL. But you won't find many that say he isn't a first rounder at qb.

[DaveThePanther2008]

3 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

One read qb sounds a lot like the guy we drafted in 2011. All the things they were saying about Cam then older guys like you are saying now. He's a running back move his position. He can't throw. But bottom line people have seen him throw well enough to say he's above everyone else in this class. That should tell you he's more than just some running back at qb. He has to be able to throw..everyone knows that. These teams aren't going to draft a qb first round that doesn't have the ability to throw.

That was a myth about Cam.  I remember the conversations this forum went back and forth over that statement.  It was obvious the they were wrong. 

[frankw]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Same question then: Can we win with Sam Darnold?

He's certainly a fine athlete. Heck, during the first part of last season, he ran for more touchdowns than any other quarterback in the league.

He's showing that he's capable of throwing the ball far or throwing it hard as well as running for first downs or even touchdowns when needed.

Using the criteria you've set yourself, he should be a perfectly capable quarterback.

So can we win games with him?

And if the answer is no, what's the specific reason why?

Sam Darnold has four seasons of NFL tape showing very clearly that he does not have the ability to process on field to be a successful NFL quarterback.  You can argue any of these rookies may fail but they have yet to play a down whereas Sam is a bust plain as day.

[DaveThePanther2008]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

Sam Darnold has four seasons of NFL tape showing very clearly that he does not have the ability to process on field to be a successful NFL quarterback.  You can argue any of these rookies may fail but they have yet to play a down whereas Sam is a bust plain as day.

Well I think we are about to find out whether it was the O-line or Sam.  Rhule is stuck with Sam and will most likely have to ride with him to the end.  Unless we trade down I don't see us taking a QB. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

I will say this before the draft.  If we choose Willis I will be 100% behind him and will not hope he fails to prove my point. 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Sam Darnold has four seasons of NFL tape showing very clearly that he does not have the ability to process on field to be a successful NFL quarterback.  You can argue any of these rookies may fail but they have yet to play a down whereas Sam is a bust plain as day.

But he has good athleticism.

I'm being told that this is a vital characteristic and that it can make up for the other deficiencies.

Are you telling me that it can't?

[micnificent28]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Same question then: Can we win with Sam Darnold?

He's certainly a fine athlete. Heck, during the first part of last season, he ran for more touchdowns than any other quarterback in the league.

He's shown that he's capable of throwing the ball far or throwing it hard as well as running for first downs or even touchdowns when needed.

Using the criteria you've set yourself, he should be a perfectly capable quarterback.

So can we win games with him?

And if the answer is no, what's the specific reason why?

this is the reason you shouldnt lump in Fran Tarkenton and roger staubach with Vick or even Willis. Darnold is not an elite athlete. He moves well and probably has sneaky speed if defenses aren't prepared for it but That athletic ability alone isn't enough to build a offense around or even devote a every down spy to. Didn't Jordan Davis a 330 pound defensive tackle just run a faster time than this guy?

Darnold on paper may not be as good a athlete as you assume.

[Call Me James]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

But he has good athleticism.

I'm being told that this is a vital characteristic and that it can make up for the other deficiencies.

Are you telling me that it can't?

It can, I imagine Sam would be even worse if he weren't athletic.

That said, the point people are making is about potential and it's safe to say after four years in the league he should have shown what he can do with it and he has not for whatever reasons you want to point to, like Sam feeling like he's proven he's good enough to be a starter.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Call Me James

[micnificent28]

If Sam Darnold isn't even faster than this guy I don't want him bring mentioned as a duel threat. Being able to run one in from 5 yards out doesn't mean your a duel threat.

[Catsfan69]

9 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I will say this before the draft.  If we choose Willis I will be 100% behind him and will not hope he fails to prove my point. 

Yes if we take him I'll be behind him until he proves he can't play.

Hopefully he's the next Brady

[Catsfan69]

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

If Sam Darnold isn't even faster than this guy I don't want him bring mentioned as a duel threat. Being able to run one in from 5 yards out doesn't mean your a duel threat.

Most of Cams runs in were from 1 yard out so......

[frankw]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

But he has good athleticism.

I'm being told that this is a vital characteristic and that it can make up for the other deficiencies.

Are you telling me that it can't?

It would be beneficial to acknowledge you have a blind spot in this particular discussion. Everyone has bias. Willis is one prospect that reveals it more for whatever reason. If Darnold can get chance after chance after chance after chance and even someone like Sam Bradford can fleece the NFL for 130 million dollars in career earnings I think we can at least wait until the kid sees an NFL field.

[Catsfan69]

6 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

this is the reason you shouldnt lump in Fran Tarkenton and roger staubach with Vick or even Willis. Darnold is not an elite athlete. He moves well and probably has sneaky speed if defenses aren't prepared for it but That athletic ability alone isn't enough to build a offense around or even devote a every down spy to. Didn't Jordan Davis a 330 pound defensive tackle just run a faster time than this guy?

Darnold on paper may not be as good a athlete as you assume.

My God you are super biased aren't you.

Vick isn't even in the same dimension as Staubach. 

It remains to be seen if Willis will be but you are taking about one of the greatest QBs of all time. 

Vick bwahahahhahahahahahaha LMFAO 

[micnificent28]

6 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Most of Cams runs in were from 1 yard out so......

If you leave out the average of 600 yards rushing and the long 70 yard touchdowns he was capable of breaking. The threat of the big chuck play made you respect newtson athleticism every down. You were always looking for it. But that worked in darnolds favor  because hey nobody expected him to run.

That said are we comparing Darnolds Red zone rushing ability to Newtons? A guy who literally ran over guys and around them into the enzone vs I caught you not looking at me and snuck in?

Edited April 11, 2022 by micnificent28