How dangerous is Willis as a runner? What makes him special?

[mrcompletely11]

53 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

I mean clearly vs Ranked sec old Miss that team looked overmatched as a whole. Drawing to conclusion about a guy based on that one scenario could lead to a flawed perspective. If we look at his entire career. He  rarely turns the ball over. And even tho over matched against d1 programs virgina tech and Syracuse he never lost to either one and was successful in the bow victories. 

I think it's safe to conclude if you look at his history vs that one game he thre multiple picks he was forced to try to make something happen while running for his life. You could probably find one game with any quarterbacks college career where they have 0-4 to ratio. But that's not what you look at to say he can't play quarterback.

This really doesn’t help your argument 

[micnificent28]

4 minutes ago, rayzor said:

It's a line drawn in the sand that people put wherever they want to put them ... often to support whatever narrative they are trying "discretely" to push.

People thought that Cam was a running QB and that he wouldn't transition into the NFL or that he would have to sit behind some vet for a year.

The job of a QB is to get his team down the field and into the endzone. Doesn't matter how he does it as long as he can. Obviously, the more ways you can accomplish it, the better. If you are leaning towards any one way, you better be good at it. The game is evolving, though, and being able to run is much more of a requirement than ever before.

The key to success for any of them is the same for all, use what they bring to the table wisely. Be smart with it. Know how to be effective using the tools they bring and build around it and work to help them develop, giving them more tools to work with.

This times 100...

[Catsfan69]

Just now, micnificent28 said:

This times 100...

Like I said Willis is a huge huge crap shoot. 

 

I think he's somewhere around a 65% bust risk.

Are willing to gamble with only 35% chance?

[micnificent28]

Sgars

1 minute ago, Catsfan69 said:

Like I said Willis is a huge huge crap shoot. 

 

I think he's somewhere around a 65% bust risk.

Are willing to gamble with only 35% chance?

What's that percentage based on? Every qb has probably a greater chance to be a bust than success so its always a game.trevor Lawrence was a generational talent and look at how he looked? 

[Catsfan69]

2 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Sgars

What's that percentage based on? Every qb has probably a greater chance to be a bust than success so its always a game.trevor Lawrence was a generational talent and look at how he looked? 

I don’t think any of these QBs are first rounders.

Honestly I think they are at best late 2nd rounders but really 3rd round QBs. 

He could turn out to be great. But at 6 you should get a star. 

I don't want to lose a HOF player for a QB that's not at a minimum Cam Newton ability. 

Cam is the floor.

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

I don’t think any of these QBs are first rounders.

Honestly I think they are at best late 2nd rounders but really 3rd round QBs. 

He could turn out to be great. But at 6 you should get a star. 

I don't want to lose a HOF player for a QB that's not at a minimum Cam Newton ability. 

Cam is the floor.

OROTY, League MVP is your floor? Then you are never going to draft a QB in the top 10. Guys like Lawrence and Stroud still have risks… Lawrence didn’t win OROTY and he was suppose to be a “sure thing.”

[Catsfan69]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

OROTY, League MVP is your floor? Then you are never going to draft a QB in the top 10. Guys like Lawrence and Stroud still have risks… Lawrence didn’t win OROTY and he was suppose to be a “sure thing.”

Cam was barely a good enough passer to win. He lost more than one game for us because of his lack to make throws consistently when trailing in the 4th. 

Sometimes it would all click for him but more times than not it wouldn't. 

 

Passing will always be the meassure of a QB. It's how you win late in games against elite teams. Josh Allen and Pat Mahomes weren't running up and down the field in that game they were delivering strikes at the end. 

[Catsfan69]

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

OROTY, League MVP is your floor? Then you are never going to draft a QB in the top 10. Guys like Lawrence and Stroud still have risks… Lawrence didn’t win OROTY and he was suppose to be a “sure thing.”

Also you put Lawrence in NE instead of Mack Jones and most likely he does win OROTY 

[Mr. Scot]

36 minutes ago, rayzor said:

It's a line drawn in the sand that people put wherever they want to put them ... often to support whatever narrative they are trying "discretely" to push.

People thought that Cam was a running QB and that he wouldn't transition into the NFL or that he would have to sit behind some vet for a year.

The job of a QB is to get his team down the field and into the endzone. Doesn't matter how he does it as long as he can. Obviously, the more ways you can accomplish it, the better. If you are leaning towards any one way, you better be good at it. The game is evolving, though, and being able to run is much more of a requirement than ever before.

The key to success for any of them is the same for all, use what they bring to the table wisely. Be smart with it. Know how to be effective using the tools they bring and build around it and work to help them develop, giving them more tools to work with.

Not exactly...

If you have a quarterback who can't run, it doesn't matter because you're still going to have wide receivers, tight ends and running backs who can.

If you have a quarterback who can't pass, are you going to ask one of the other skill positions to throw passes for them?

Over the past 20 years, I've seen two teams try to work with an offense built primarily around running. One was Michael Vick's Falcons, the other was us with Newton. Neither won a championship. We got closer because Newton was a far better passer than Vick, but we couldn't keep it up for much longer than they did.

Future seasons with Norv Turner as OC told us that if we had tried a more balanced attack and spent more time teaching Newton to be a better passer, we could have had greater success. But we hadn't...so we didn't.

In today's NFL, especially with the rules set up the way they are, you can win with a balanced attack, you can win with a pass heavy attack, but you're not going to win championships with a primarily run based attack.

(heck, that's why we constantly have the arguments we do about how much we paid McCaffrey)

Edited April 11, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[micnificent28]

2 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Cam was barely a good enough passer to win. He lost more than one game for us because of his lack to make throws consistently when trailing in the 4th. 

Sometimes it would all click for him but more times than not it wouldn't. 

 

Passing will always be the meassure of a QB. It's how you win late in games against elite teams. Josh Allen and Pat Mahomes weren't running up and down the field in that game they were delivering strikes at the end. 

This is a horrible take.... like nothing here makes sense barely enough? You don't Barely enough win a MVP and only lose 2 games in a season. BARELY win 3 division titles. The guy is a alltime record holder for rushing touchdowns in the league obviously your doing more than barely if your number 1 in a few categories and defeated Brady and all the pocket passers for a season.

Barely? That means you can't throw at all really.

[Carl Spackler]

Oh, but if you're a HOF QB you find ways to win wherever you are. That's why you go top-10 to a bad team.

[Catsfan69]

6 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

This is a horrible take.... like nothing here makes sense barely enough? You don't Barely enough win a MVP and only lose 2 games in a season. BARELY win 3 division titles. The guy is a alltime record holder for rushing touchdowns in the league obviously your doing more than barely if your number 1 in a few categories and defeated Brady and all the pocket passers for a season.

Barely? That means you can't throw at all really.

No it's a fact he was 20 times the passer Vick was But Rodgers was 20 times the passer Cam was.

MVP doesn't mean best QB for the year. You know that right?

[ForJimmy]

4 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Cam was barely a good enough passer to win. He lost more than one game for us because of his lack to make throws consistently when trailing in the 4th. 

Sometimes it would all click for him but more times than not it wouldn't. 

 

Passing will always be the meassure of a QB. It's how you win late in games against elite teams. Josh Allen and Pat Mahomes weren't running up and down the field in that game they were delivering strikes at the end. 

Cam was top tier for game winning drives during his prime. When he had talent (Smith) at WR he broke 4000 passing yards as a rookie. We also never provided him a LT. 
https://www.espn.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/31017/overlooked-cam-newton-as-clutch-as-brady-rodgers-and-brees?platform=amp

Give Cam Hill, Kelce, and an elite line and imagine what he could have done. How did Mahomes look in his last Super Bowl with his OL was banged up giving him a below average OL? 
I swear people see a QB running and can’t handle it. Cam could throw it at a high level before TJ Watt destroyed his throwing shoulder. 

[micnificent28]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not exactly...

If you have a quarterback who can't run, it doesn't matter because you're still going to have wide receivers, tight ends and running backs who can.

If you have a quarterback who can't pass, are you going to ask one of the other skill positions to throw passes for them?

Over the past 20 years, I've seen two teams try to work with an offense built primarily around running. One was Michael Vick's Falcons, the other was us with Newton. Neither won a championship. We got closer because Newton was a far better passer than Vick, but we couldn't keep it up for much longer than they did.

Future seasons with Norv Turner as OC told us that if we had tried a more balanced attack and spent more time teaching Newton to be a better passer, we could have had greater success. But we hadn't...so we didn't.

In today's NFL, especially with the rules set up the way they are, you can win with a balanced attack, you can win with a pass heavy attack, but you're not going to win championships with a primarily run based attack.

(heck, that's why we constantly have the arguments we do about how much we paid McCaffrey)

I think this is skewed. You used 2 guys as examples of running qbs. So you have 2 out 32 chance of winning the super bowl. Chances are you won't. Does that mean it can't work? No. Then the other example of couldn't keep it up leads to the idea Newtons body got destroyed running the ball so that's why he's not the Qb which isn't exactly the case either.

We didn't protect him and he got hurt in the pocket that Pittsburg game. Even up until this previous season with us Newton still looked like the same runner as far as rushing ability goes. He didn't lose effectiveness. His arm was just gone. His ability rifle in strikes between coverage wasn't there. Not to mention playing behind the worst offense line in carolina history. The Newton wasn't a good quarterback and running is why Is greatly overstated.