Matt Rhule hate....

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, Captroop said:

Shoulda shoulda shoulda

What are you seeing right now, leading up to the 2022 season that is 2 weeks away that is worse than last year?

Is he, in your honest opinion, continuing to make the team worse?

Not a fan at all of the way he ran training camp, especially not giving Ekwonu and Mayfield The lion's share of the starting reps.

His "process' still reflects the thinking of a college coach rather than a professional one.

And again, outside of "let's be optimistic", I haven't seen much in the way of real reasons to be optimistic.

3 minutes ago, Captroop said:

He doesn't have the under-qualified coaches anymore. He's not doing the DBO nonsense. He's improved in every area he was skewered for in the past. So people can either continue to hate him because of the past, or choose to see the trajectory as improving and wait until the actual season to judge him on the things a coach should actually be judged for.

She's still relying on Phil Snow as his defensive coordinator. That's a pretty important position.

As far as the claim that he's "improved in every area" I'm going to need specifics.

[mrcompletely11]

7 minutes ago, Captroop said:

I agree.

He doesn't have the under-qualified coaches anymore. He's not doing the DBO nonsense. He's improved in every area he was skewered for in the past. So people can either continue to hate him because of the past, or choose to see the trajectory as improving and wait until the actual season to judge him on the things a coach should actually be judged for.

Jesus what trajectory? 

[Jackie Lee]

 

[Captroop]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not a fan at all of the way he ran training camp, especially not giving Ekwonu and Mayfield The lion's share of the starting reps.

People complained nonstop Corral wasn't getting enough reps. And in his second game his foot snapped like a toothpick. All of a sudden bringing him along slowly starts looking like it was the right call.

Is it not giving them the reps, or is it letting them get up to speed an minimizing opportunities for an injury.

If Ickey had ruptured his ACL after getting all the training camp reps, what would you be saying then? "Rhule's an idiot for throwing him in too early against our first team?"

I'm willing to accept that as a fan I'm not privy to everything going on behind the scenes and all the decision-making that goes into why a camp is run the way it's run. And I'm going to give the head coach the benefit of the doubt that he knows more about how to do it than me.

Quote

His "process' still reflects the thinking of a college coach rather than a professional one.

Curious about what you're seeing here.

Quote

And again, outside of "let's be optimistic", I haven't seen much in the way of real reasons to be optimistic.

She's still relying on Phil Snow as his defensive coordinator. That's a pretty important position.

Phil Snow put together a solid defensive group last year. He needs to improve Red Zone D, but I'm by no means ready to jettison him. So why hold that against Rhule?

Quote

As far as the claim that he's "improved in every area" I'm going to need specifics.

He's cut out the college disciplinary, "take a lap" nonsense, and from what we've seen, ran a very professional-level camp

We have depth at positions where we didn't have depth last year

We have an NFL OC

Anything else, I don't know how you judge his coaching until you see how he coaches in regular season games

[CRA]

23 minutes ago, Captroop said:

I agree.

He doesn't have the under-qualified coaches anymore. He's not doing the DBO nonsense. He's improved in every area he was skewered for in the past. So people can either continue to hate him because of the past, or choose to see the trajectory as improving and wait until the actual season to judge him on the things a coach should actually be judged for.

I mean, he hasn't done that.  Only an actual season would afford him an opportunity to show if he has managed improvement in most of the areas he has been knocked for. 

 

[Captroop]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, he hasn't done that.  Only an actual season would afford him an opportunity to show if he has managed improvement in most of the areas he has been knocked for.

1) I disagree, when so much of what people are giving him crap for ITT have nothing to do with his coaching on Sundays, and

2) If that's the case, why do we have this thread in late August?

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, Captroop said:

People complained nonstop Corral wasn't getting enough reps. And in his second game his foot snapped like a toothpick. All of a sudden bringing him along slowly starts looking like it was the right call.

Is it not giving them the reps, or is it letting them get up to speed an minimizing opportunities for an injury.

If Ickey had ruptured his ACL after getting all the training camp reps, what would you be saying then? "Rhule's an idiot for throwing him in too early against our first team?"

I'm willing to accept that as a fan I'm not privy to everything going on behind the scenes and all the decision-making that goes into why a camp is run the way it's run. And I'm going to give the head coach the benefit of the doubt that he knows more about how to do it than me.

Curious about what you're seeing here.

Phil Snow put together a solid defensive group last year. He needs to improve Red Zone D, but I'm by no means ready to jettison him. So why hold that against Rhule?

He's cut out the college disciplinary, "take a lap" nonsense, and from what we've seen, ran a very professional-level camp

We have depth at positions where we didn't have depth last year

We have an NFL OC

Anything else, I don't know how you judge his coaching until you see how he coaches in regular season games

I wasn't expecting Corral to be a starter or play this year, but giving PJ Walker reps in both practice and preseason games ahead of him was just plain idiotic. It reflects the college mindset, treating Corral like a college freshman rather than an NFL rookie. And the "well, Ickey might have gotten injured" argument is kind of silly, especially given what you said above it about Corral.

Calling the defensive unit last season "solid" is...generous (and I'm being kind). They were run over pretty much from game four forward and gave up loads of points against even poorly performing offenses.

As far as the "benefit of a doubt", that goes to coaches that have proven something/ Rhule hasn't, and again the "knows more than me" argument is ridiculous. He doesn't have to know more than you, me or any other fan. He needs to know more than Sean McDermott, Bill Belichick and 29 other guys who are professional NFL coaches.

As far as what's gonna happen this year, I don't know. Neither do you. That means the best criteria I can use to judge him by is what I do know,

And it ain't good...

Edited August 25, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[CRA]

31 minutes ago, Captroop said:

1) I disagree, when so much of what people are giving him crap for ITT have nothing to do with his coaching on Sundays, and

2) If that's the case, why do we have this thread in late August?

well, you said he has improved in every area people have been critical of him.  I guess we are on very different pages of what people are being critical of him about.  

90% of the stuff will take actual football to show if there has been any actual improvement/growth from my vantage point.  

The other 10% is stuff that people only care about because he loses.  It is basically the icing on top and winning makes it all irrelevant.  Therefore, it doesn't even matter. 

I'll give an example, Matt Rhule's in game management is horrible.  He hasn't had an opportunity to show improvement there yet. 

Matt Rhule's inability and/or slowness to make adjustments is horrible.  Both sides of the ball.  He hasn't had an opportunity to show improvement there yet.   

 

[CPantherKing]

16 hours ago, poundaway said:

You realize a handful means 5, right?  You realize contenders mean they were in the SB, not necessarily won it, right? 
Zac Taylor
Kyle Shanahan
Ron Rivera
Bill Belichick
Pete Caroll

That's off the top of my head over the last, what, 7 SBs?   And you're saying there aren't any more?

I call bullshlt.

 Shlt, that  doesn't even count Shanhan 2x or Belichek 4x in those 7 years. It also doesn't include the coaches on their second stints who had LOSING records at previous teams and got fired.

Your statements also show a lack of understanding of cause and effect.

Coaches who start with multiple losing seasons don't make it to the SB many times because they are fired after a couple of losing seasons,  of course they don't win the SB.

This was about coaches who won the SB with the team that hired them. Not losers who came up short.

Zac Taylor has not won a SB with the Bengals. Kyle Shanahan has not won a SB for the 49ers. Ron Rivera did not win a SB for the Panthers. If Taylor and Shanahan were to win the SB, then they would still follow this steady pattern of coaches who win SB because they both turned their teams into contenders by year 3.

The goal is finding, paying, and retaining the champion. Not overpaying for a runner-up or loser.

Carroll and Belichick are 2 of the handful.

I wouldn't trust the top of your head. Do some research if you want to refute the facts. You think Shanahan had the 49ers in the SB twice in the past 7 seasons? You're incorrect on Belichick being in the SB 4 times in the past 7 seasons. Don't trust the top of your head.

It's not meant to include coaches on their second stint. Unless you're a Rhule fan wanting him to use the Panthers as a stepping stone and find another team he leads to a SB when he actually gets it right and doesn't use a 7 year plan. Do you think Browns fans are thrilled Belichick finally figured it out 5 years later with the Patriots? No. Do you think Panthers fans will talk about how great Rhule was after he is fired and possibly leads another NFC team to the SB? No.

Coaches who lose don't win a SB because losing doesn't get you the Lombardi. Losing doesn't build a championship culture. Nevermind they have to beat the actual SB winning coaches who win out of the gate with the team that hired them.

Also, Ron Rivera, Zac Taylor, and Kyle Shanahan had their teams winning in the playoffs by their 3rd year.

Who are all these SB winning coaches you believe exist that lost in multiple seasons with a previous team? You can go back over the past 3 decades. You'll find 1 coach.

Coaches always get fired when they lose. Especially, the SB losing coaches who produce a single losing season after reaching the big game and losing. So, why keep a 6 year loser because he says he will have you winning in year 7 (when he has never completed 7 years with any team).

 

 

[poundaway]

11 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

This was about coaches who won the SB with the team that hired them. Not losers who came up short.

Zac Taylor has not won a SB with the Bengals. Kyle Shanahan has not won a SB for the 49ers. Ron Rivera did not win a SB for the Panthers. If Taylor and Shanahan were to win the SB, then they would still follow this steady pattern of coaches who win SB because they both turned their teams into contenders by year 3.

The goal is finding, paying, and retaining the champion. Not overpaying for a runner-up or loser.

Carroll and Belichick are 2 of the handful.

I wouldn't trust the top of your head. Do some research if you want to refute the facts. You think Shanahan had the 49ers in the SB twice in the past 7 seasons? You're incorrect on Belichick being in the SB 4 times in the past 7 seasons. Don't trust the top of your head.

It's not meant to include coaches on their second stint. Unless you're a Rhule fan wanting him to use the Panthers as a stepping stone and find another team he leads to a SB when he actually gets it right and doesn't use a 7 year plan. Do you think Browns fans are thrilled Belichick finally figured it out 5 years later with the Patriots? No. Do you think Panthers fans will talk about how great Rhule was after he is fired and possibly leads another NFC team to the SB? No.

Coaches who lose don't win a SB because losing doesn't get you the Lombardi. Losing doesn't build a championship culture. Nevermind they have to beat the actual SB winning coaches who win out of the gate with the team that hired them.

Also, Ron Rivera, Zac Taylor, and Kyle Shanahan had their teams winning in the playoffs by their 3rd year.

Who are all these SB winning coaches you believe exist that lost in multiple seasons with a previous team? You can go back over the past 3 decades. You'll find 1 coach.

Coaches always get fired when they lose. Especially, the SB losing coaches who produce a single losing season after reaching the big game and losing. So, why keep a 6 year loser because he says he will have you winning in year 7 (when he has never completed 7 years with any team).

 

 

Once again, you realize contenders mean they were in the SB, not necessarily won it, right?   That was your term, not mine.

This statement of yours:

Quote

Did you know just a handful of them had 2 losing seasons before they were SB contenders or won the SB?

is patently false.

Edited August 25, 2022 by poundaway

[CPantherKing]

5 minutes ago, poundaway said:

Once again, you realize contenders mean they were in the SB, not necessarily won it, right?   That was your term, not mine.

And you realize you completely missed that this was about SB winning coaches having the team that hired them in place to be contenders or win the SB by year 3.

No one wants to be runner-up in the SB and never win it. They cry for a reason after they lose. No one wants to simply be a contender. No one wants a 6 year loser who hangs his hat on a SB loss in year 7.

You don't get to change my premise and then state the facts don't match your premise in support of runner-up being a pinnacle you want to achieve.

I didn't do research on SB losers who never return to win a SB. Feel free to see how many coaches get to the SB after losing for more than 3 seasons with the team that hired them. I'm sure the top of your head will be wrong on them too.

[poundaway]

Just now, CPantherKing said:

And you realize you completely missed that this was about SB winning coaches having the team that hired them in place to be contenders or win the SB by year 3.

No one wants to be runner-up in the SB and never win it. They cry for a reason after they lose. No one wants to simply be a contender. No one wants a 6 year loser who hangs his hat on a SB loss in year 7.

You don't get to change my premise and then state the facts don't match your premise in support of runner-up being a pinnacle you want to achieve.

I didn't do research on SB losers who never return to win a SB. Feel free to see how many coaches get to the SB after losing for more than 3 seasons with the team that hired them. I'm sure the top of your head will be wrong on them too.

I'm not misstating you.  I'm quoting you verbatim.

If the statement was only about champions, why did you specifically post contenders in addition to the winners?

You can feel free to change to "champions only" now, but you posted contenders and champions in your original post.

[CPantherKing]

20 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

Did you know that most COACHES WHO HAVE WON THE SB had a winning record in year 1? Did you know just a handful of THEM had 2 losing seasons before they were SB contenders or won the SB? Did you know that no HC since the 60s has had more than 2 losing seasons before leading their team to SB contention and an eventual SB championship?

@poundaway

That is verbatim. Now read again. I highlighted the subject for you. Do your own research.

Quiz: Who is "them" referring to?

Do you see anything about SB contenders in there as the subject?

Looking forward to your next CYA post

[poundaway]

12 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

@poundaway

That is verbatim. Now read again. I highlighted the subject for you. Do your own research.

Quiz: Who is "them" referring to?

Do you see anything about SB contenders in there as the subject?

Looking forward to your next CYA post

Them is referring to coaches.  If you wanted to refer to only the super bowl champion coaches, you would have said "of those superbowl champions", not "them".  You had to add bold to even try to get your meaning across.

Theres no need for CYA dude.  Its just a discussion board.

Edited August 25, 2022 by poundaway