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Quarterbacks win championships

Sean Payton's Vicodin

By Sean Payton's Vicodin,
in Carolina Panthers

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45catfan Grand Master

45catfan

Posted
Posted

I don't think anyone would argue that you need a special QB to win the Super Bowl, it's just a matter of how that QB is found/acquired and developed.  There's where the debate starts.  Remember, Hurts was widely regarded as system QB with accuracy issues coming out of college.  Hurts was also a 2nd round pick as a result.  Mahommes came from Texas Tech where the QBs historically put up huge numbers in a pass happy offense, but were major flops in the NFL.  Saying either one of these guys would be where they are today is a major reach because both had QBs drafted before them and doubts about their game.  

Point being, drafting a QB is a crap shoot and draft position isn't necessarily an indicator of how that player's career will an out.  I mean Trubisky is a backup that got benched for a rookie this year and Jordan Love still can't sniff the field.

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45catfan Grand Master

45catfan

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32 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think there are 2 QBs this draft worth trying to get.   Every draft is different. 

and if you don't have a QB and haven't' had a QB for a long time.....you have to start trying to get them. 

I fully support Carolina trying to get one.   You can't play the wait for one to fall to you always.   It rarely happens.  And like Fields or not.  Carolina already missed that.  It happened for us. It doesn't happen often. 

Yup, and to the dismay of many, I'm will to wait for a loaded 2024 QB class.  Where this class was supposed to be deep, albeit light at the top of the board--next year's class is both deep and top heavy.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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7 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Yup, and to the dismay of many, I'm will to wait for a loaded 2024 QB class.  Where this class was supposed to be deep, albeit light at the top of the board--next year's class is both deep and top heavy.

no guarantee the 2024 class will actually be loaded though. 

a lot can change in a season.  The locks to be contending for a Heisman sometimes don't have the season so many think are givens.  

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SCO96 Veteran

SCO96

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11 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

Your mention of Jalen Hurts makes my point.  The only QBs in the game were both MVP candidates.  This is also the worst team Mahomes has ever been on and he still came in and performed.  

I'm not suggesting QBs are all you need.  I suggested as much in my initial post.  I'm saying that the proof is in the pudding.  Almost every championship of the past 20+ years was won by a top tier QB.  Gone are the days of a defense holding opponents to 15 points per game while the QB slogs through the mud and they run the ball 40 times a game.  There are only a few very rare exceptions.

Good post. But, QB's just don't "will their teams to victory". QB's don't block, catch passes (at least most of the time), make tackles, intercept passes and force fumbles, kick FG's, or run back kicks. You put a Mahomes, Brady, or Montana on a team that cannot competently do all of the above on a consistent basis, or when it matters most, they won't win SB's.

If you put a Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, Jim Plunkett, Jeff Hostetler on a team that does all of the above very well and the the latter guys don't turn the ball over & make three or four big plays per game, and get the ball out on time, you can win with them.

None of the top tier QB's you allude in your post to played on bad/mediocre teams.

 

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45catfan Grand Master

45catfan

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Just now, CRA said:

no guarantee the 2024 class will actually be loaded though. 

a lot can change in a season.  The locks to be contending for a Heisman sometimes don't have the season so many think are givens.  

A lot of those key QBs that were supposed to be the meat of this draft and opted to stay/transfer will be out of eligibility, plus add in all the guys that will be eligible next year too.  Now injuries, down seasons personally/team-wise will cause some of the crop to stay in school, but the numbers will be much better than this coming draft class.

Coming off a super-weak and thin QB drafts back-to-back is setting up a bumper crop in 2024.

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Growl Grand Master

Growl

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27 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Yup, and to the dismay of many, I'm will to wait for a loaded 2024 QB class.  Where this class was supposed to be deep, albeit light at the top of the board--next year's class is both deep and top heavy.

nobody is dismayed, we’re just bored of this useless do-nothing take now that we’ve seen how flawed and fruitless the thought process is

Panthers aren’t drafting a first round guard, defense doesn’t win championships.

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TJKJ23xx Collaborator

TJKJ23xx

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I think it's a mix honestly. Not all Franchise QBs can or have won. It's a mix of coaching and QB neither fully outweighing the other. 50/50 split. Mahomes being a few tiers higher than his peers surely helps but he is an anomaly. Reid has been one of the more successful coaches of our time. 2-2 in Super Bowls now with both losses being to Brady aint too shabby. 

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Samppson Collaborator

Samppson

Posted
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11 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

The goal isn't just to get a franchise QB. The goal is to build a team around a franchise QB. If you cripple your ability to do that, then you likely waste your franchise QB. That's why you rarely see teams trade for franchise QBs. They can't afford the salary and the picks. You can do one or the other, not both.

That's not true, the reason teams rarely trade for franchise QBs is they become available for trade very rarely. Especially one that isn't past their prime, and is still on the younger side. Any time that has happened, there has been many suitors willing to trade multiple first rounders. If you have a true guy like that, they can cover up so many holes on your roster. Is it ideal to draft one and only spend a single first rounder? Sure, and I'm on board with that approach, but let's not act like if Burrow/Herbert/Allen became available, you would have more than half the league willing to give up any draft picks for them.

 

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DeAngelo Beason Mentor

DeAngelo Beason

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38 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

Good post. But, QB's just don't "will their teams to victory". QB's don't block, catch passes (at least most of the time), make tackles, intercept passes and force fumbles, kick FG's, or run back kicks. You put a Mahomes, Brady, or Montana on a team that cannot competently do all of the above on a consistent basis, or when it matters most, they won't win SB's.

If you put a Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, Jim Plunkett, Jeff Hostetler on a team that does all of the above very well and the the latter guys don't turn the ball over & make three or four big plays per game, and get the ball out on time, you can win with them.

None of the top tier QB's you allude in your post to played on bad/mediocre teams.

 

When you have to go back 40+ years to find a reasonable sample size of teams that could win a championship with a piss poor QB you make my point for me.

You don't think the niners win two or three superbowls with a legit QB vs Jimmy?

You don't think the Panthers win Superbowl 38 with someone like Peyton Manning under center?

You think the Chiefs win yesterday's game, or even make the playoffs, with Trent Dilfer as QB?

 

Come on man.

 

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