Offensive support cast ranked 31st in the league

[panthers55]

12 minutes ago, CRA said:

lol 2018 play isn't a representation of what they wanted to do going forward and there play.  Joe Flacco was the QB.  The offense was about to change and they drafted the pieces for that change/future in 2018.

2019 is when the commitment to the TE O and scheme hit the field.  

most targeted player? TE

most receptions? TE

most TDs? TE

TEs were 3 of the 5 most targeted players in the passing game. 

Hurst was there.  Problem again for Hurst....is he was the 3rd most targeted TE in the TE heavy scheme and was first round pick.   

And the Ravens stayed committed to the TE going forward there year after year after year just without the dude that was suppose to be the lead of it.  Hurst. 

 

You are right they did have a plan which is run the ball. They had more rushing yards than passing yards. You are right that Andrews had the most targets but that likely reflects Jackson's limitations as a passer rather than a design. Tight ends caught more balls because Jackson was liimited in what he could throw.  That makes you tight end friendly by default not design. 

In 2020 Baltimore threw for even less yards than 2019 and Brown was the leading receiver not Andrew's. Part of the reason Andrew's got 700 yards was because he didn't have to share with any other  tight ends. And again out of 2700 yards TEs accounted for around 1/3 of all passing yards. So no Baltimore  wasn't tight end centric by design.

[CRA]

18 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You are right they did have a plan which is run the ball. They had more rushing yards than passing yards. You are right that Andrews had the most targets but that likely reflects Jackson's limitations as a passer rather than a design. Tight ends caught more balls because Jackson was liimited in what he could throw.  That makes you tight end friendly by default not design. 

In 2020 Baltimore threw for even less yards than 2019 and Brown was the leading receiver not Andrew's. Part of the reason Andrew's got 700 yards was because he didn't have to share with any other  tight ends. And again out of 2700 yards TEs accounted for around 1/3 of all passing yards. So no Baltimore  wasn't tight end centric by design.

Yes, they did have a plan to run the ball.  The passing component of that offense was TE centric.    It was literally all planned out in 2018.  You draft Lamar, you build a team around Lamar and what his strengths will be.  Which they did in the 2018 draft.   

2019 TE had the most receptions, yards and TDs

2020 TE had the most receptions, 2nd yards and TDs

2021 TE had the most receptions, yards and TDs. 

That was supposed to be Hurst.  That was the plan.  Only he was overdrafted and wasn't capable to fill that role.  So someone else did.   

But it is undeniable it was an ideal spot for a talented TE to be drafted into because of the emphasis the position would have in the passing O.  Andrews was supposed to be #2.  It was quickly evident Andrews was significantly better than the first rounder and that was a problem.  So they solved it quick.  Hurst was sent packing after 2 years.  A rarity in the NFL.  And it has nothing to do with him not being in a place for a TE to thrive.  That's what the Ravens wanted for the TE and Lamar.  And that's why you waste a first round pick on a TE....to be a focal point in an offensive scheme. 

 

 

[Ricky Spanish]

Let's look at the receivers and cast in terms of GPA.

A - Great =4pts

B - Above Average =3pts

C - Average =2pts

D - Below Average =1pt

F - Failure =0pts

Here's what our Supporting cast looked like at the Beginning of last year, and then the end of last year:

Beginning:

Baker = F

CMC = A

DJ Moore = B

Robbie Anderson = F

Shenault = D

TMJ = INCOMPLETE (But by the end of the year he was a C so I'll just use that for his grades all the way through)

Ian Thomas = D

Tremble = D

GPA - 1.5 (You get kicked out of school with this GPA)

End of year significant contributors:

Darnold = C (He played fine at the end of the year, don't feel like I'm being generous in this assessment)

Foreman = C

Hubbard = C

Moore = B

TMJ = C

Thomas = D

Tremble = D

Shenault = D

GPA - 1.75 (Academic Probation with this Grade)

 

Let's look at what we have now with everything we've added, and assume that Bryce plays at an Average QB level:

Young = C

Sanders = B

Hubbard = C

Thielen = C

Chark = C

TMJ = C

Shenault = D

Hurst = C

Mingo = INCOMPLETE

GPA - 2.0 (C's Get Degrees)

If Young and one average receiver play at a B level, the GPA jumps up to 2.25, slightly above average. 

On paper, we have improved to average and that includes being generous with last year's grades and conservative with this year's.

I don't see how we don't win at least two more games with an Average supporting cast, putting us firmly in the playoff hunt for a WC spot at the least. 

 

[MasterAwesome]

16 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

What about the other two teams? Hurst has busted for three teams now. We're team #4 and we paid him like a legit starting TE. I hope we prove to be right in that decision but it honestly doesn't look like a smart gamble. 

I get that we were basically borderline desperate at TE, but that's why I wanted to draft a TE considering this was one of the strongest TE draft classes on paper in recent memory while this year's TE free agency class was basically hot trash.

 

How did Hurst "bust" for the Bengals?  They signed him to a 1-year $3.5 million contract which would make him the 29th highest paid TE if we're looking at current contracts.  He produced 414 yards which put him at 23rd most for a TE last season.  Seems like decent value in line with what they paid him...not incredible, not a "bust" by any means.

That's also what doesn't make sense about your argument.  You point out that Hurst is 29 years old and on his 4th team and yet you're still throwing out his 1st round draft status as if it's in any way relevant to present-day considerations about Hurst's value.  It isn't relevant for any team outside of the Ravens to be talking about where he was drafted, when he's going into his 6th season.  This is such a silly and meaningless back-and-forth for 10 pages about whether or not to assign Hurst the "bust" label (from both sides).

That being said, it does feel like we overpaid him relative to his production last year.  I just don't know why we can't talk about that instead of where he was drafted 5 years ago.

[panthers55]

3 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

How did Hurst "bust" for the Bengals?  They signed him to a 1-year $3.5 million contract which would make him the 29th highest paid TE if we're looking at current contracts.  He produced 414 yards which put him at 23rd most for a TE last season.  Seems like decent value in line with what they paid him...not incredible, not a "bust" by any means.

That's also what doesn't make sense about your argument.  You point out that Hurst is 29 years old and on his 4th team and yet you're still throwing out his 1st round draft status as if it's in any way relevant to present-day considerations about Hurst's value.  It isn't relevant for any team outside of the Ravens to be talking about where he was drafted, when he's going into his 6th season.  This is such a silly and meaningless back-and-forth for 10 pages about whether or not to assign Hurst the "bust" label (from both sides).

That being said, it does feel like we overpaid him relative to his production last year.  I just don't know why we can't talk about that instead of where he was drafted 5 years ago.

Next year you can make the argument we overpaid for him when his cap hit goes to 10 million if he doesn't put up big numbers but his cap hit is only 3 million in 2023 which is pretty small. And cap hit is all that matters. Tepper has tons of money but still has to fit it under the cap.

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

How did Hurst "bust" for the Bengals?  They signed him to a 1-year $3.5 million contract which would make him the 29th highest paid TE if we're looking at current contracts.  He produced 414 yards which put him at 23rd most for a TE last season.  Seems like decent value in line with what they paid him...not incredible, not a "bust" by any means.

That's also what doesn't make sense about your argument.  You point out that Hurst is 29 years old and on his 4th team and yet you're still throwing out his 1st round draft status as if it's in any way relevant to present-day considerations about Hurst's value.  It isn't relevant for any team outside of the Ravens to be talking about where he was drafted, when he's going into his 6th season.  This is such a silly and meaningless back-and-forth for 10 pages about whether or not to assign Hurst the "bust" label (from both sides).

That being said, it does feel like we overpaid him relative to his production last year.  I just don't know why we can't talk about that instead of where he was drafted 5 years ago.

I have talked about that. Thanks for largely rehashing Gerry's arguments that the thread has moved past though.

[jtm]

I think Miles Sanders is the only offensive playmaker that opposing defensive coordinators are worried about.  Definitely not close to CMC type of worry, but they are paying attention to Sanders.  Everyone else is either unproven or age is not in their favor.  We have a young guys that have tons of potential, but so does every other team in the NFL.  The truth hurts sometimes.  

[jtm]

And Hurst is not a bust . . . that is nonsense.  He's productive at the position on team that has a ton of other offensive weapons.  He'll be relied on in Carolina and this will be his chance to see if he can handle the load or if he's just a guy.  

[MasterAwesome]

24 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I have talked about that. Thanks for largely rehashing Gerry's arguments that the thread has moved past though.

You = Hurst is a bust.

hubby = Hurst is not a bust.

Me = this is a meaningless argument about a 6th year player signing with his 4th team.

Not sure how you're conflating my argument with his.  But if you're struggling to understand even this basic distinction then I can already tell this will only become yet another very unproductive discussion and I think this thread has already hit its quota on those.  So I'll just leave it at "you're welcome, I'm happy to help".