Marty Hurney, Dave Gettleman, Scott Fitterer

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

If (my personal guess) it's not good yet but it's at least better than what we've seen early, then it's progress.

I honestly can't say that it is, particularly the offensive passing game. It's BAD.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I honestly can't say that it is, particularly the offensive passing game. It's BAD.

And there's zero chance of that improving?

[CPF4LIFE]

Hurney drafted: Travelle wharton, Richard marshall, Charles Johnson  Ryan kalil, Cap munnerlyn, Greg hardy, josh Norman, frank Alexander, donte jackson, marquis haynes, Jermaine carter all after the first round.  

Fitt hasnt come close to do anything similar and gettleman wasnt no better. 

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And there's zero chance of that improving?

I didn't say that. All I responded to was you basically calling someone stupid for suggesting that Fitts might be worse than Hurney. I have zero defense of Marty Hurney but so far, I've seen no concrete evidence to argue that Fitts is better.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I didn't say that. All I responded to was you basically calling someone stupid for suggesting that Fitts might be worse than Hurney. I have zero defense of Marty Hurney but so far, I've seen no concrete evidence to argue that Fitts is better.

I think it's dumb to suggest that we know anything at this point, or even that it's trending a certain way.

Fitterer was shackled to Rhule for his first two years. Even if you don't factor in the final say thing, he was (like any GM) beholden to get the kind of players that Rhule and his staff wanted. 

Reich and his people are going to be looking for players that fit their schemes, so there's going to be some turnover. That doesn't necessarily mean the guys they let go were bad. They just might not fit what we want to do.

Combine that with the fact that it takes a few years time to really know how good a draftee truly is and you're left with very little to go on.

People assume I'm saying that Fitterer is good. I'm not. He could be, or he could not be, but the situation isn't one where we can definitively know much of anything yet.

I get that people don't like having to wait to make judgments (especially today) and heaven knows people love to be able to claim they said something first, but that's all pretty silly.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Jay Roosevelt]

Hurney was solid during his first run; his bigger issues were generally the contracts he was giving out. The middle rounds were a weak point for him, but he still did draft guys like Ryan Kalil, Charles Johnson, Travelle Wharton, Josh Norman, Greg Hardy (off-field issues aside, the guy could play), Ricky Manning, and Geoff Hangartner. Not all Pro Bowlers or anything, but some were and others were solid players for us.

Gettleman was, IMO, the worst for the simple fact that he seemed to have ZERO instincts on how to actually construct and/or maintain a winning roster. Yes, we did have more success under his tenure as G.M. but we did it largely with players drafted by Marty Hurney. Gettleman did have some early success with Star, K.K. Short, Trai Turner, and finding Andrew Norwell as a UDFA, but also drafted two of our bigger 1st round busts in Kelvin Benjamin and Vernon Butler. His entire approach to team building was schizophrenic at best; he went from signing exclusively bargain bin free agents in 2013-2015 to handing out a massive deal to Matt Kalil and this was after completely botching the Josh Norman situation in 2016. His tenure as the Giants G.M. saw more of this type of team-building and their lack of success during that time I think shows what we would have dealt with had he not inherited a very talented roster from Marty Hurney.

Scott Fitterer... well, it's too soon to say. Certainly the results haven't been great in terms of our record, but we really don't know how many of the mistakes of the past few years were his decisions and how many were Matt Rhule's. I do like his approach to filling holes on the roster better than Gettleman's (full bargain bin) or Hurney (big spending on mid-tier players). Long-term I think his legacy will be all about how successful Bryce Young is and how good a team he can assemble around him long-term. Obviously it's not looking real promising at the moment, but it is important to note that it IS still early and that this is really only his second year without Rhule having full roster control.

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think it's dumb to suggest that we know anything at this point, or even that it's trending a certain way.

Fitterer was shackled to Rhule for his first two years. Even if you don't factor in the final say thing, he was (like any GM) beholden to get the kind of players that Rhule and his staff wanted. 

Reich and his people are going to be looking for players that fit their schemes, so there's going to be some turnover. That doesn't necessarily mean the guys they let go were bad. They just might not fit what we want to do.

Combine that with the fact that it takes a few years time to really know how good a draftee truly is and you're left with very little to go on.

People assume I'm saying that Fitterer is good. I'm not. He could be, or he could not be, but the situation isn't one where we can definitively know much of anything yet.

I get that people don't like having to wait to make judgments (especially today) and heaven knows people love to be able to claim they said something first, but that's all pretty silly.

Well, so far we know that the passing offense looks like trash and That's holding back the overall team. That's what we know. Yeah, we all hope it can be fixed.

[Ricky Spanish]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're smarter than this, dude.

No need to be condescending. The only way he comes out of all this as the least worst is if Bryce ends up being good. It's WAY too early to say one way or the other on him, but everything leading up to this moment has been more bad than good. How much was on him in 2021 is uncertain, but it's still a part of his overall body of work.

Season isn't over yet so It's too early to say one way or the other. But based on overall team results thus far the arrow is currently pointing down, and I say that thinking the team will be better the second half of the season.

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Well, so far we know that the passing offense looks like trash and That's holding back the overall team. That's what we know. Yeah, we all hope it can be fixed.

After two games...

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

No need to be condescending. The only way he comes out of all this as the least worst is if Bryce ends up being good. It's WAY too early to say one way or the other on him, but everything leading up to this moment has been more bad than good. How much was on him in 2021 is uncertain, but it's still a part of his overall body of work.

Season isn't over yet so It's too early to say one way or the other. But based on overall team results thus far the arrow is currently pointing down, and I say that thinking the team will be better the second half of the season.

I'm not. I genuinely think you are smarter than this.

Read what I said to Linville above.

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

After two games...

Indeed. That's what we're working with. That's the sample size. We all hope it'll get better but we all hoped it would get better going into week two as well. 

It was this same story throughout the preseason. It would be different come the regular season. Okay, so when? Not week one. Not week two.  When can a reasonable fan expect to see signs of a functional padding offense?

[Ricky Spanish]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not. I genuinely think you are smarter than this.

Read what I said to Linville above.

No I read it, and overall I agree with the fact it's too early to say one way or the other. 

But gun to my head if I am being made to give my opinion on how the overall roster construction, drafts, trades, contract negotiations, and overall team record have gone since Fitt has taken over I'd say it hasn't been good so far. It could get better. I'm not saying it won't. I'm just saying objectively, so far it's been bad.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

No I read it, and overall I agree with the fact it's too early to say one way or the other. 

But gun to my head if I am being made to give my opinion on how the overall roster construction, drafts, trades, contract negotiations, and overall team record have gone since Fitt has taken over I'd say it hasn't been good so far. It could get better. I'm not saying it won't. I'm just saying objectively, so far it's been bad.

Gun to my head, I get shot.

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We all hope it'll get better

You sure about that?

 

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It was this same story throughout the preseason. It would be different come the regular season. Okay, so when? Not week one. Not week two.  When can a reasonable fan expect to see signs of a functional padding offense?

I said before the season ever started that I wasn't gonna be ready to talk about how good or bad we really were until around midseason.

That's true any year honestly, but even more true in a year when you're starting with a new staff.